New To The Game

[Anonymous]

Hello all, 

I have recently (last 7 days) come across churning and I have become obsessed with researching this area. I have several questions on my strategy and other general questions and I am really not even sure I am in the right place. I don't know if this is the appropriate forum for my questions or if it is proper etiquette to come in with a bunch of questions on my very first post but feel free to redirect me or correct me if needed. 

Before I unleash questions, I suppose some background info would help. 3 and a half years ago I got my first CC, a BECU VISA (no annual fee). I got it to build my credit, as my credit was below 600 from some stuff in collections. I have never used this card excessively and I have always paid the balance before any interest rates set in. This combined with being on time with car payments has combined to bring my credit scores up to 745 (TU) and 747 (Equifax). I don't know what my FICO score is (if there is a way to access it for free, I would love to know how). For the most part I was just happy to get my credit score up until I found out that I can use it to my benefit, so now I am on a mission to capitalize on my credit score and use it to grab some benefits. 

Here is where I would like some feedback. After some research on churning for a few days, I felt comfortable diving in and applied to a couple cards (possibly prematurely). My girlfriend and I do 75% of our grocery shopping at safeway (about $300-$350 a month) and I commute a lot for work, so I applied for the AMEX Blue Cash Preferred card (6% cash back on US supermarkets and 3% on gas stations) and was accepted at a 10k limit. Let me tell you, 10k limit may not be much to a lot of you folks but it was very empowering to instantly be accepted for a 10k limit. I just couldn't believe that I am that trusted and I think that is where this hobby or passion, or whatever you want to call it, got its' hooks in me. The other card that I applied for was the Alaska Airlines Visa Signature. I applied for this specific card because I tend to fly Alaska when I do fly, so the yearly companion fare was very intriguing. I also have a destination wedding in cancun that I will be attending in march of 2018 and the companion fare with the mileage bonus will cut costs significantly. I was accepted for a 5k limit on this one. A few days after these applications, I still feel comfortable with Blue Cash card but feel that maybe I should have gone with some other travel card that is a little more flexible. Anyways, at this point I still have many questions. If you folks can answer any of them, that's great and if not, that's cool too.

-Should I apply to another card or two or wait 90 days to have some more credit inqueries? It seems that I could go for something like Chase Sapphire and make my trip cost next to nothing. I could wait 90+ days before another credit inquiry but I am hoping to book my flight once I get the bonuses from my alaska visa. 

-How many cards should I limit myself to applying to each year? I would like to apply for a costco card to maximize on costco spending and get 4% on costco gas. I also would like something like C1 Venture to accrue miles on general purchases. I am just wondering how long to wait to apply for more and how much I should limit myself to per year

-For my BECU Visa, I requested a credit increase, will that count as a credit inquery against my credit score? 

-I now have a total credit limit of 20k across 3 cards. Is the credit utilization # for the total limit? or for each individual card? For instance if I use $2000 on my AMEX in a month, would my credit utilization be 2k/10k for 20% or would it be 2k/20k for 10%?

-I have done a lot of research the last few days but still want to learn so much more. what good resources can you point me toward to educate myself further?

I appreciate any help yall can provide me with! Thanks

[Anonymous]

First and foremost, welcome to the forum : I will reply in the sequence you asked your questions but may jump around a bit.

1. Churning only works if you are able to meet the spend requirments within the alloted time. So congratulations on snagging an Amex card at a whopping 10K SL. I don't care what anyone says, a 10K SL is an amazing accomplishment! 
2. Congrats on being approved the Alaska Airlines VS card!
3. Chase can be a picky bank in regards to accepting those with limited credit. Your Amex card haven't started reporting yet which means Chase will you're mint and they hate to be people's first credit card/bank. That said, there are those who are considered exceptions to this norm.
4. Let's say you do get approved for the CSP (chase sapphire preferred) will you be able to meet the spending requirements of all three cards (CSP, BCE, and AA) to get the bonuses? If not, I'd hold off so you don't miss out on the CSP bonus of $625 in travel dollars or $500 for cashback. 
5. In regards to how many cards you should limit yourself to per year is a personal choice. I limited myself to 1-2 cards when i just started out but look at me now, I've opened 4 cards this year. But I am finally done and do not have any other cards that I want since I've completed the chase trifecta. It's addicting applying for new cards and 90% of the members here have fallen victim to it haha. It's hard to manage the bonus categories when you have 10 credit cards so focus on those that you actually need and will utilize. If grocery and gas is your thing, your Amex will provide for groceries AND gas which will allow you to accumulate points quickly. If you get the Costco card, you will cannibalize gas points from your Amex card and your points will accrue even slower.
6. If you get the Venture 1 card for travel, then your CSP will serve no purpose. It comes with a $95/yr annual feel so it's not financially smart to pay for a card you won't be using unless you can justify the annual fee to carry around a metal card for aesthetics.
7. Anytime you request a credit line increase from any bank always assume a hard inquiry to follow (regardless if you're approved or not). Amex and Discover do soft pulls but still, always assume a hard inquiry.
8. As for credit utilization, the only one that matters is the amount you owe/total credit line. This is how your credit score calculate overall utilization. However, credit utilization per card can affect whether or not the bank you have the card with is willing to increase your credit limit or if they will be weary to increase spending limit if you still owe them. It's a risk thing. 
9. You've done an excellent job with the research you've done so far. Keep it up and try not to fall victim to churning so early haha. Nurture the cards you currently have because nothing is worse than having multiple credit cards stuck at low limits. Let your current cards age. 
10. Another thing, the more you apply for credit cards, the more your average age of accounts or AAoA will decrease. This is a bad thing for those with limited credit. 

Signup for Discover score card, they provide Experian Fico 8 score. Your Amex will also provides Experian Fico 8. You can also pay $1 to https://www.creditchecktotal.com/ for a free trial and have access to all 3 Fico 8 credit reports (Transunion, Experian, Equifax).

[Anonymous]

Good SL on those cards. After reading your post, it's not exactly "churning" what you're doing. You're being smart for thinking through what card you want and for what purpose. Think through what you spend on the most and what are your goals and plans with the perks each card has to offer. Get a combination of cards that will give you cashback, flexible points (i.e. Chase Sapphire, AMEX cards with membership rewards) that you can transfer. Airline cards are good if you are wanting elite status that will give you benefits like upgrades, mileage to pay for airfare. You can also use them for travel packages bought through the airline. Chase Ultimate Rewards and AMEX Membership Rewards will give you flexibility in using them. 

Churning is more like getting the card for the purpose of the getting sign up bonus they offer and cancelling them before you get hit with the annual fee. Then people will downgrade those cards to the one with no annual fees, etc. It's very complicated and it takes a lot of work. But, credit card companies are becoming more strict with the rules. For example, Chase and Citi has limited the sign on bonus every 24 months. American Express will give you the sign on bonus once in a lifetime. These rules were just placed within the last 2 years. So, be careful. Pick your battle. I have a lot of cards and I benefited good amount of points and miles for my travels. But, I don't call myself a churner because I don't plan to close them and therefore, will not be getting those big sign on bonuses. I just plan to keep using them and acrue points as I go as I go along. 

Here are a few websites I visit to look at rewards, bonuses, etc. You'll also find info on credit cards, comparisons, etc. 

1. The Points Guy

2. Miles to Memories

3. Points with a Crew

4. Doctor of Credit

Good luck !!! You seem to have your head together on what you want and your priorities. There are lots of cards that will give you plenty of rewards. They all have their pros and cons. 20k limit between 3 cards is pretty solid.

-Should I apply to another card or two or wait 90 days to have some more credit inqueries? It seems that I could go for something like Chase Sapphire and make my trip cost next to nothing. I could wait 90+ days before another credit inquiry but I am hoping to book my flight once I get the bonuses from my alaska visa. 

> Only apply if you need it. No time frame. Knows each lenders rules. Citi will only let you apply every 8 days. AMEX you can apply for a 1 revolver and 1 charge with one inquiry. If you are looking at Chase, read and understand the 5/24 rule. 

-How many cards should I limit myself to applying to each year? I would like to apply for a costco card to maximize on costco spending and get 4% on costco gas. I also would like something like C1 Venture to accrue miles on general purchases. I am just wondering how long to wait to apply for more and how much I should limit myself to per year

>  Limit yourself to the cards that will give you the most return and reward for use. I know I'm guilty of this. But, it is what it is now. 

-For my BECU Visa, I requested a credit increase, will that count as a credit inquery against my credit score? 

> Some credit card companies will give you a CLI (credit line increase) with only a soft pull (SP) than a hard pull (HP). AMEX will give you CLI with a soft pull every 61 and 181 days. Citi is always a hard pull. Chase is a hard pull I think. 

-I now have a total credit limit of 20k across 3 cards. Is the credit utilization # for the total limit? or for each individual card? For instance if I use $2000 on my AMEX in a month, would my credit utilization be 2k/10k for 20% or would it be 2k/20k for 10%?

> Utilization is based on the total limit with revolvers. Charge cards is not counted in with utilization. Other loans (car, personal, etc) are counted separately as well. 

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much for the help to both of you! Very helpful and thank you for the warm welcome, it is appreciated.

"You've done an excellent job with the research you've done so far. Keep it up and try not to fall victim to churning so early haha. Nurture the cards you currently have because nothing is worse than having multiple credit cards stuck at low limits. Let your current cards age"

-Wait, why is having multiple cards at low limits bad? Is it because you can't spend enough on it to really reap rewards or something else? 

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Hello all, 

I have recently (last 7 days) come across churning and I have become obsessed with researching this area. I have several questions on my strategy and other general questions and I am really not even sure I am in the right place. I don't know if this is the appropriate forum for my questions or if it is proper etiquette to come in with a bunch of questions on my very first post but feel free to redirect me or correct me if needed. 

Before I unleash questions, I suppose some background info would help. 3 and a half years ago I got my first CC, a BECU VISA (no annual fee). I got it to build my credit, as my credit was below 600 from some stuff in collections. I have never used this card excessively and I have always paid the balance before any interest rates set in. This combined with being on time with car payments has combined to bring my credit scores up to 745 (TU) and 747 (Equifax). I don't know what my FICO score is (if there is a way to access it for free, I would love to know how). For the most part I was just happy to get my credit score up until I found out that I can use it to my benefit, so now I am on a mission to capitalize on my credit score and use it to grab some benefits. 

Here is where I would like some feedback. After some research on churning for a few days, I felt comfortable diving in and applied to a couple cards (possibly prematurely). My girlfriend and I do 75% of our grocery shopping at safeway (about $300-$350 a month) and I commute a lot for work, so I applied for the AMEX Blue Cash Preferred card (6% cash back on US supermarkets and 3% on gas stations) and was accepted at a 10k limit. Let me tell you, 10k limit may not be much to a lot of you folks but it was very empowering to instantly be accepted for a 10k limit. I just couldn't believe that I am that trusted and I think that is where this hobby or passion, or whatever you want to call it, got its' hooks in me. The other card that I applied for was the Alaska Airlines Visa Signature. I applied for this specific card because I tend to fly Alaska when I do fly, so the yearly companion fare was very intriguing. I also have a destination wedding in cancun that I will be attending in march of 2018 and the companion fare with the mileage bonus will cut costs significantly. I was accepted for a 5k limit on this one. A few days after these applications, I still feel comfortable with Blue Cash card but feel that maybe I should have gone with some other travel card that is a little more flexible. Anyways, at this point I still have many questions. If you folks can answer any of them, that's great and if not, that's cool too.

-Should I apply to another card or two or wait 90 days to have some more credit inqueries? It seems that I could go for something like Chase Sapphire and make my trip cost next to nothing. I could wait 90+ days before another credit inquiry but I am hoping to book my flight once I get the bonuses from my alaska visa. 

-How many cards should I limit myself to applying to each year? I would like to apply for a costco card to maximize on costco spending and get 4% on costco gas. I also would like something like C1 Venture to accrue miles on general purchases. I am just wondering how long to wait to apply for more and how much I should limit myself to per year

-For my BECU Visa, I requested a credit increase, will that count as a credit inquery against my credit score? 

-I now have a total credit limit of 20k across 3 cards. Is the credit utilization # for the total limit? or for each individual card? For instance if I use $2000 on my AMEX in a month, would my credit utilization be 2k/10k for 20% or would it be 2k/20k for 10%?

-I have done a lot of research the last few days but still want to learn so much more. what good resources can you point me toward to educate myself further?

I appreciate any help yall can provide me with! Thanks

---

I have gotten 17 cards this year.  But I have a lot of closed accounts on my report that are 18 years old.   My AAOA is still over 7 years.  It seems that you will drive your average age accounts down pretty quickly if your oldest account is only 3 years old.  

I would get the Chase Saphire Preffered as your next card as Chase will not give you a card if you have 5 new credit cards in the last 24 months.  It is one of the better cards and you might want to get it before your door is closed.  If you can get the AMEX BCP you can get a Prefferred Gold Card from Amex that is pretty nice in rewards.  50,000 sign up bonus plus you will get 200 dollars of airline incidental fees in your first year.  I get 100 dollar Southwest Cards.  Barclay Arrival + is nice because if you meet their spend they give you 550 dollars that you can use as a credit on any travel related expense in the last 120 days. So you can use it for air fare, hotel, rental cars, buses, trains etc.  Just remember if you keep these cards past a year they will charge you an annual fee. Good luck. 

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Thanks so much for the help to both of you! Very helpful and thank you for the warm welcome, it is appreciated.

"You've done an excellent job with the research you've done so far. Keep it up and try not to fall victim to churning so early haha. Nurture the cards you currently have because nothing is worse than having multiple credit cards stuck at low limits. Let your current cards age"

-Wait, why is having multiple cards at low limits bad? Is it because you can't spend enough on it to really reap rewards or something else? 

---

Having multiple credit cards at low limits will sometimes not work in your favor. It will sometimes pit you in the low limits forever and some credit card companies will match whatever card you have so let's say you have a 500 limit with BofA, Discover MAY approve you close to 500 and then it's harder to be approved for cards with higher limits. It's a common theme here. However, if you have 1 or 2 cards and you nurture them for a while and request CLI and get above a certain threshold, the next time you apply for a card, it's most likely you will be given a higher limit by another bank that matches your current credit card's credit line. Plus it goes back to utilization. Nothing is worse than having 10K limit spread over 10 cards. It's more attractive to have a higher limit spread over the least amount of cards. It's better for your AAoA.

[MrDisco99]

I've seen reports where Amex will let you apply for 1 revolver and 2 chargers on the same day.  I intend to try this in a few months.  Results may vary.

Definitely get in with Chase while you still can.  Once you're 5 cards in they will have nothing to do with you.  The Sapphire Preferred is a great card for racking up travel rewards when used in combination with the Freedom and Freedom Unlimited cards (for now... see the thread about UR points).  Until they get around to nerfing that program, this is still the best and fastest way to earn flexible travel rewards.

Watch out for those annual fees next year (or now for some cards).  Have a plan ready for either paying the fee or converting or cancelling the account.

[MrDisco99]

Also should add... you want to put some thought up front into what kind of rewards best suits your spending and your goals.  Do you want to focus on cash back?  Do you travel a lot?  Points are great but for the most part are worth the most when exchanged for travel and are not much good value otherwise.  For example, you could use them to get cash back or gift cards, but you likely won't get as much value vs. going with a straight cash back card portfolio.  If you intend to use rewards on travel, though, points typically offer a lot better value than cash back.

[Anonymous]

Ah I see, thanks again for your help notloso. Yea I see what you folks are saying on the CL. In that case, I think I will chill for a bit. Another question I have along that same line: what about my car loan and student loans? Do those affect my AAoA? If so, my student loans will be growing in age and affecting my credit for at least 10 years until I hopefully get loan forgiveness. 

To answer MrDisco, I guess i'm still kind of figuring out exactly what my goal is. For now, my goal is to maximize cash back on my two primary categories of groceries and gas and accrue mileage points on the rest of my major spending categories, such as bills, dining, and beer. If anyone has an idea for accrual on beer spending let me know haha I am planning to funnel every dollar I spend through a credit card and getting as much rewards as I possibly can. So with that being said, I guess I am just trying to find the most value regardless of whether it is cash back or miles. 

I guess my next card will have to be Chase Sapphire before the 5/24 sets in (thank god for this post because I thought the 5/24 rule was specifically for chase cards not all cards). How long should I wait to apply for that? or should I give it time and see if they come with a bigger bonus? As of right now I don't see myself closing my AMEX or AlaskaAir Visa, as I see long term value in each of them. However, if I did do Chase Sapphire, I feel that I would close before the annual fee because I don't see as much long-term value in that one. Maybe I am ignorant on that one 

Once again, thanks for all the help I have received!