Paying Amex Charge (UPDATE 3/21/20)

[Anonymous]

---

@FinStar wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

If I were to guess, and it's only a guess, if your point is to show you can handle larger balances, wouldn't it make sense that paying once a month shows that rather than 3 times a month? The reasoning is, paying multiple times implies you don't have the cash at once at the time when payment is due OR you don't trust yourself to have it at the time when payment is due.

I PIF always, once a month. I do it as soon as the statement cuts. If any issuer would analyze my payment habits, it would show I always have the money to pay my balance, well before the due date.

Not sure if this helps. 

---

Aggregate transaction amounts + total payments during the same cycle would not make any difference based on such illustration.  If I make 10 transactions totaling $15,000 in the cycle and PIF 10 times (for each transaction incurred), same thing.  The algorithm isn't thinking "oh I wonder if the cardmember is doing it this way because they don't have the full funds to cover a PIF"... The payment IS the expectation, regardless whether you do so (several payments or a lump sum) once your statement cycles or you decide to PIF by the due date. 

---

Yes, but all payments are recorded. There is more than one process that can be run, and others can be created. One to collect data (payments), and others to analyze the data. They collect as much data as they can about us so to analyze it to either provide better service or to look at trends that might put them at risk. It's not that it takes a payment and decides if the cardholder has the funds to PIF with now lol. They use analytics and even neural networks to do analysis with other processes.

So a neural network can analyze the payment habits of a cardholder and predict what they are likely to do next. What that might be, I don't know. 

There are a lot of people who pay multiple times per statement period. And there are those who pay once. I'm sure there are other patterns that emerge from that type of payment behavior, but I do not know if they are positive or negative. People with lower scores tend to pay multiple times for one reason or another, and one reason is too small of a CL.  

[Anonymous]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I had wondered about that scenario a few times. At the end of he day they get paid, but was always curious how they felt about someone who paid the balance in five seperate payments versus one large payment. 

One could assume that the person cannot afford the whole thing at once. But if they are indeed paying it off, what's the difference?

It all comes down to how/when they get paid. If it's weekly and you have a budget set up, then you pay everything accordingly. As it might be possible to spend it elsewhere between now and when you get paid again? Thus reducing teh amount you can pay later. 

Lets remember that not everyone stores a bunch of cash in one Bank, and can easily PIF at a moments notice. But they're still generating  swipes and paying it back.

---

Yes, at the end of the day (in this case end of the cycle) you either paid in full or you didnt. That's what matters. But how you paid is secondary, which can be analyzed in predictive modeling. I'm not saying it is, but it can be.

Banks are like people about caring when they get their money. And yes, analytic algorithms can track this type of behavior if they so desired.

Example: I borrowed $1500 from you. I tell you I will pay you in full Tuesday. You form an opinion about me. Then I say I will PIF 3 weeks from Tuesday. You have a slightly different opinion of  me. Then I say I'll pay you $300/week for the next 5 weeks, before it's all due. Again a different opinion. If you get all your money, and all is said and done, your happy any way I do it. I'm sure you'd rather get it all on Tuesday. You understand there is more risk if I wait or pay in chunks. Banks are the same way.

If I say I'm going to be late with my full payment, I'll give you $100 now and the rest will be late. Now you are sweating and probably won't lend me money again. 

That's a hugely difference in opinion now. But you still have an opinion about PIF at once vs PIF $300 at a time for 5 weeks even though you'll get your money in time.

If you don't think they care when and how fast they get their money, try making a large purchase a day or 2 before the closing date.  And watch the charge have a very short temporary authorization cycle and end up on your statement. 

[Anonymous]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I had wondered about that scenario a few times. At the end of he day they get paid, but was always curious how they felt about someone who paid the balance in five seperate payments versus one large payment. 

One could assume that the person cannot afford the whole thing at once. But if they are indeed paying it off, what's the difference?

It all comes down to how/when they get paid. If it's weekly and you have a budget set up, then you pay everything accordingly. As it might be possible to spend it elsewhere between now and when you get paid again? Thus reducing teh amount you can pay later. 

Lets remember that not everyone stores a bunch of cash in one Bank, and can easily PIF at a moments notice. But they're still generating  swipes and paying it back.

---

Yes, at the end of the day (in this case end of the cycle) you either paid in full or you didnt. That's what matters. But how you paid is secondary, which can be analyzed in predictive modeling. I'm not saying it is, but it can be.

Banks are like people about caring when they get their money. And yes, analytic algorithms can track this type of behavior if they so desired.

Example: I borrowed $1500 from you. I tell you I will pay you in full Tuesday. You form an opinion about me. Then I say I will PIF 3 weeks from Tuesday. You have a slightly different opinion of  me. Then I say I'll pay you $300/week for the next 5 weeks, before it's all due. Again a different opinion. If you get all your money, and all is said and done, your happy any way I do it. I'm sure you'd rather get it all on Tuesday. You understand there is more risk if I wait or pay in chunks. Banks are the same way.

If I say I'm going to be late with my full payment, I'll give you $100 now and the rest will be late. Now you are sweating and probably won't lend me money again. 

That's a hugely difference in opinion now. But you still have an opinion about PIF at once vs PIF $300 at a time for 5 weeks even though you'll get your money in time.

If you don't think they care when and how fast they get their money, try making a large purchase a day or 2 before the closing date.  And watch the charge have a very short temporary authorization cycle and end up on your statement. 

---

I'll be expecting someone to come along and say that I said you'll get AA if you make multiple payments lol. All I'm saying paying in full and on time is what really matters. Analysis of payment behavior for other internal reasons is likely happening with the major banks and is secondary. 

[longtimelurker]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@FinStar wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

If I were to guess, and it's only a guess, if your point is to show you can handle larger balances, wouldn't it make sense that paying once a month shows that rather than 3 times a month? The reasoning is, paying multiple times implies you don't have the cash at once at the time when payment is due OR you don't trust yourself to have it at the time when payment is due.

I PIF always, once a month. I do it as soon as the statement cuts. If any issuer would analyze my payment habits, it would show I always have the money to pay my balance, well before the due date.

Not sure if this helps. 

---

Aggregate transaction amounts + total payments during the same cycle would not make any difference based on such illustration.  If I make 10 transactions totaling $15,000 in the cycle and PIF 10 times (for each transaction incurred), same thing.  The algorithm isn't thinking "oh I wonder if the cardmember is doing it this way because they don't have the full funds to cover a PIF"... The payment IS the expectation, regardless whether you do so (several payments or a lump sum) once your statement cycles or you decide to PIF by the due date. 

---

Yes, but all payments are recorded. There is more than one process that can be run, and others can be created. One to collect data (payments), and others to analyze the data. They collect as much data as they can about us so to analyze it to either provide better service or to look at trends that might put them at risk. It's not that it takes a payment and decides if the cardholder has the funds to PIF with now lol. They use analytics and even neural networks to do analysis with other processes.

So a neural network can analyze the payment habits of a cardholder and predict what they are likely to do next. What that might be, I don't know. 

There are a lot of people who pay multiple times per statement period. And there are those who pay once. I'm sure there are other patterns that emerge from that type of payment behavior, but I do not know if they are positive or negative. People with lower scores tend to pay multiple times for one reason or another, and one reason is too small of a CL.  

---

Right, but since we don't know what any algorithm is actually going to predict, it's hard to draw any "You should do this" type of thing!

In your example:  "I PIF always, once a month. I do it as soon as the statement cuts. If any issuer would analyze my payment habits, it would show I always have the money to pay my balance, well before the due date."

For all we know, this could correlate with greater risk:  "Cardnut [so far] has just managed to scrape the needed funds together, and sends them in because he/she is unsure that they will have them later in the month, due to lack of financial discipline"    Or not.

[Anonymous]

---

@longtimelurker wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@FinStar wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

If I were to guess, and it's only a guess, if your point is to show you can handle larger balances, wouldn't it make sense that paying once a month shows that rather than 3 times a month? The reasoning is, paying multiple times implies you don't have the cash at once at the time when payment is due OR you don't trust yourself to have it at the time when payment is due.

I PIF always, once a month. I do it as soon as the statement cuts. If any issuer would analyze my payment habits, it would show I always have the money to pay my balance, well before the due date.

Not sure if this helps. 

---

Aggregate transaction amounts + total payments during the same cycle would not make any difference based on such illustration.  If I make 10 transactions totaling $15,000 in the cycle and PIF 10 times (for each transaction incurred), same thing.  The algorithm isn't thinking "oh I wonder if the cardmember is doing it this way because they don't have the full funds to cover a PIF"... The payment IS the expectation, regardless whether you do so (several payments or a lump sum) once your statement cycles or you decide to PIF by the due date. 

---

Yes, but all payments are recorded. There is more than one process that can be run, and others can be created. One to collect data (payments), and others to analyze the data. They collect as much data as they can about us so to analyze it to either provide better service or to look at trends that might put them at risk. It's not that it takes a payment and decides if the cardholder has the funds to PIF with now lol. They use analytics and even neural networks to do analysis with other processes.

So a neural network can analyze the payment habits of a cardholder and predict what they are likely to do next. What that might be, I don't know. 

There are a lot of people who pay multiple times per statement period. And there are those who pay once. I'm sure there are other patterns that emerge from that type of payment behavior, but I do not know if they are positive or negative. People with lower scores tend to pay multiple times for one reason or another, and one reason is too small of a CL.  

---

Right, but since we don't know what any algorithm is actually going to predict, it's hard to draw any "You should do this" type of thing!

In your example:  "I PIF always, once a month. I do it as soon as the statement cuts. If any issuer would analyze my payment habits, it would show I always have the money to pay my balance, well before the due date."

For all we know, this could correlate with greater risk:  "Cardnut [so far] has just managed to scrape the needed funds together, and sends them in because he/she is unsure that they will have them later in the month, due to lack of financial discipline"    Or not.

---

Agreed. I love cards brought up a good point. If you are a risky borrower, they might like to see some payment during the month rather than 1 at the due date. Just like the 1500 I owe you, you would prefer me sending you 300 a week for 5 weeks instead of 1500 all at once in 5 weeks. Better yet, you'd like to get the 1500 all at once on Tuesday. 

But over the long term, if you can bulk pay once a month consistently for years, they will feel more comfortable with you being able to continue that. Who knows, they might even think you got an inheritance and now paying large sums in full now is the new normal. 

I'm a he BTW lol. That is sometimes a challenge responding to posts when trying to word responses when you don't know. 

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

@I_Love_Cards those are some good datapoints

[wasCB14]

I could see some concern if someone paid a $200 balance by pulling sums from 4 or 5 different checking accounts.

I got an unusual (and supposedly unrelated...yeah, right) call from Amex 5 days before a ~$26k minimum payment was due. Unprompted, I said I knew I had a big payment coming up and was just earning a little more interest on my cash before paying as agreed. And I paid on time, as agreed, carrying the rest of the balance at 0% until paying it off just as the 0% expired.

Since then, they haven't given me any trouble about my paying just the minimum on my no-fee Plans (generally $5k-$15k in balances).

[FinStar]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I had wondered about that scenario a few times. At the end of he day they get paid, but was always curious how they felt about someone who paid the balance in five seperate payments versus one large payment. 

One could assume that the person cannot afford the whole thing at once. But if they are indeed paying it off, what's the difference?

It all comes down to how/when they get paid. If it's weekly and you have a budget set up, then you pay everything accordingly. As it might be possible to spend it elsewhere between now and when you get paid again? Thus reducing teh amount you can pay later. 

Lets remember that not everyone stores a bunch of cash in one Bank, and can easily PIF at a moments notice. But they're still generating  swipes and paying it back.

---

Yes, at the end of the day (in this case end of the cycle) you either paid in full or you didnt. That's what matters. But how you paid is secondary, which can be analyzed in predictive modeling. I'm not saying it is, but it can be.

Banks are like people about caring when they get their money. And yes, analytic algorithms can track this type of behavior if they so desired.

Example: I borrowed $1500 from you. I tell you I will pay you in full Tuesday. You form an opinion about me. Then I say I will PIF 3 weeks from Tuesday. You have a slightly different opinion of  me. Then I say I'll pay you $300/week for the next 5 weeks, before it's all due. Again a different opinion. If you get all your money, and all is said and done, your happy any way I do it. I'm sure you'd rather get it all on Tuesday. You understand there is more risk if I wait or pay in chunks. Banks are the same way.

If I say I'm going to be late with my full payment, I'll give you $100 now and the rest will be late. Now you are sweating and probably won't lend me money again. 

That's a hugely difference in opinion now. But you still have an opinion about PIF at once vs PIF $300 at a time for 5 weeks even though you'll get your money in time.

If you don't think they care when and how fast they get their money, try making a large purchase a day or 2 before the closing date.  And watch the charge have a very short temporary authorization cycle and end up on your statement. 

---

Blanket statement?

Ordinarily, this is something that happens on a case-by-case basis, based on the merchant, batch processing, network, etc.  IME, it's been hit or miss depending on the merchant and timing difference.  I've placed fairly large transactions 1 or 2 days before a given statement cycle - AmEx or any other lender (because float goals) and the majority of cases are not processed within that cut-off.  Off to the next cycle.

Any other time,  smaller transactions have processed quickly and get captured in the current cycle. 

[NRB525]

---

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:

---

@FinStar wrote:

---

You'll be fine.  [ I'm not so sure ]

---

Oh, I'm not worried about AA. I used to charge up 8-10k back in the day before I would get a phone call. Though, after burning them for 11k, I'm sure they would rather have a payment sooner than later. 😂

---

So, the opening post leads to many standard reponses about paying timing. In my opinion the revelation of a prior large charge off changes the topic substantially.

Some additional questions to get to the rest of the story:

OP, when was the $11k charge off?

How long have you had each of these new AMEX open? Congrats on getting them opened.

I was going to suggest letting the Gold card balance build and pay it once per month, but the other question is, how much are you running through the Gold and the other AMEX Centurion Bank cards you have now? A scale of $1,000 per month has a different answer than a rate of $10,000 per month, given the low limits on the Revolvers.

I also was going to suggest using the full limit on the Delta Gold and Delta Platinum, as my experience on a $2k limit Delta Gold was a $1k Auto CLI when I started pushing to that limit. But I'm not sure an auto CLI would appear yet in this case.

Also as clarification, unless I misunderstood the opinion, POT and Plan It aren't really a good comparative to "should I pay regular charges multiple times per month". POT and Plan It still deal with a single monthly payment, but they take a larger amount and handshake an agreement that the item will be handled on a payment plan of multiple months. If your POT is locked from adjustment, I would interpret that as a limited POT, thus the low limit on that feature.

[Anonymous]

---

@FinStar wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I had wondered about that scenario a few times. At the end of he day they get paid, but was always curious how they felt about someone who paid the balance in five seperate payments versus one large payment. 

One could assume that the person cannot afford the whole thing at once. But if they are indeed paying it off, what's the difference?

It all comes down to how/when they get paid. If it's weekly and you have a budget set up, then you pay everything accordingly. As it might be possible to spend it elsewhere between now and when you get paid again? Thus reducing teh amount you can pay later. 

Lets remember that not everyone stores a bunch of cash in one Bank, and can easily PIF at a moments notice. But they're still generating  swipes and paying it back.

---

Yes, at the end of the day (in this case end of the cycle) you either paid in full or you didnt. That's what matters. But how you paid is secondary, which can be analyzed in predictive modeling. I'm not saying it is, but it can be.

Banks are like people about caring when they get their money. And yes, analytic algorithms can track this type of behavior if they so desired.

Example: I borrowed $1500 from you. I tell you I will pay you in full Tuesday. You form an opinion about me. Then I say I will PIF 3 weeks from Tuesday. You have a slightly different opinion of  me. Then I say I'll pay you $300/week for the next 5 weeks, before it's all due. Again a different opinion. If you get all your money, and all is said and done, your happy any way I do it. I'm sure you'd rather get it all on Tuesday. You understand there is more risk if I wait or pay in chunks. Banks are the same way.

If I say I'm going to be late with my full payment, I'll give you $100 now and the rest will be late. Now you are sweating and probably won't lend me money again. 

That's a hugely difference in opinion now. But you still have an opinion about PIF at once vs PIF $300 at a time for 5 weeks even though you'll get your money in time.

If you don't think they care when and how fast they get their money, try making a large purchase a day or 2 before the closing date.  And watch the charge have a very short temporary authorization cycle and end up on your statement. 

---

Blanket statement?

Ordinarily, this is something that happens on a case-by-case basis, based on the merchant, batch processing, network, etc.  IME, it's been hit or miss depending on the merchant and timing difference.  I've placed fairly large transactions 1 or 2 days before a given statement cycle - AmEx or any other lender (because float goals) and the majority of cases are not processed within that cut-off.  Off to the next cycle.

Any other time,  smaller transactions have processed quickly and get captured in the current cycle. 

---

Yes, I didn't speak for all my cards. Most of them do it, not all. And yes it can be merchant specific. Some have different cutoff dates (same day, 1 day prior, 2 days prior). Amex is same day on the few I tried. I made a 500 or 600 transaction on the morning of my closing date and it was on the statement the next day. Since I pay as soon as the statement cuts, it was like paying with a debit card.