@JMills wrote:Thank You all for your expertise in the matter, in the end we have the right to make the decision that best fit our needs at the moment. I am sure they are several way to this, but what matters is what benefits you and your money. I personally have no problem with someone churning, I am not in the position to churn since I am rebuilding. However I will look into. Sometimes on these formuns people can be mean with their views, if you dont agree with it, thats fine. We can agree to disagree. Dofferennt Strokes for Different folks, but as Myjourney said lets play nice. I for one learn from the posts everyone contributed to the questions. So thanks. We are all here helping each other become better in the way we handle debt. What works for one, may not work the other
From OP herself (blue highlighted)
OP asked for info I can only speak for myself still learning how to churn so I read these threads for all info not one view or the other but all viable documented facts about the proper way to do this if needed.
That being said we all owe it to OP as well as each other to continue to be respect each other view and opinions and her thirst for knowledge which is what makes this the best forum around by far.
We don't do personal attacks of any kind here and offer help to each and every person.
Discussions about vanilla reloads always brings out the ugly side of internet forum. This thread is looking like something you'd see on flyertalk.
@CreditScholar wrote:
@parakleet wrote:Discussions about vanilla reloads always brings out the ugly side of internet forum. This thread is looking like something you'd see on flyertalk.
+1. This is why I avoid flyertalk whenever possible. I've never seen a bigger collection of whining, overly-argumentative, self-entitled cheapskates in my life.
I mean I'm definitely not a fan of 5x+VRs, but I also know better than to waste time arguing about it with people (who I don't even know) over the internet.
LOL, I've been lurking here for a very long time, but I just had to register when I saw this. As a 10+ year Flyertalk member, I can't say I disagree. A lot of folks on FT act like that, and some can be outright nasty to newbies and feel as if they belong to an exclusive country club. Having said that, FT is an enormously useful resource for free or cheap travel, and I honestly would've never been able to travel the way I do if it weren't for Flyertalk. And there are still a lot of those who are more than happy to share knowledge or their experiences.
A disclaimer: I don't own FT or have any financial interest in it; well, I wish
.
Anyhow, on the subject of churning. I consider myself a relatively heavy churner, although it's not exactly the right term. I normally apply for 5-6 cards 3 times a year (4 if an especially good card comes along). I do not do MS other than to meet spend requirements. The reason for that is, it's extremely hard to come up with VR in NYC, and the nearest Walmart is 45-60 min away. Too much work. So, my only concern is sign up bonuses. I don't care for 3x, 4x, or 5x either. Again, too much work, and besides, I'm always busy meeting the spend.
A couple of thoughts for anyone who's interested in Churning 101. Understand, I don't want to come across as condescending. Just becouse you guys belong to this forum means you know way more about credit than regular folks. Still, churning must be taken seriously, and newbies need to have some protective measures in place.
1. It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway. In order to play this game successfully one should never carry a balance and must be able to meet the spend. The spend reauirements have gone up considerably over the years I've been doing this. It means you always gotta have more money coming in than going out in order to pay in full every month.
2. The good news is: I've been doing it for 10 years, the last 4-5 pretty heavily. While my score does flactuate, it always seems to remain in the 735-780 range. I could further optimize it by paying off balances long before the due date, but I really don't see the point. I almost never get denied.
3. I only cancel a credit card when the AF is due, that is if I decide to drop the card. There are some AF cards I'm happy to pay for due to their benefits. I discourage anyone to cancel the card immeadiately upon meeting the spend. Banks don't like it, and some issuers like Chase will claw back your miles if you close within 6 months (at least they say they will).
4. My AAoA has shrunk over the years. It's true. I obtain my first credit card in 1994, I believe. Yet, my AAoA is only 5.5 years. Am I concerned about it? No, at least not yet. AAoA is only a secondary factor, and it's much less important than UR.
5. Higher UR means that churning indeed may help you build your credit history. I know it sounds crazy, but higher UR beats the hell out of losing those initial 4-5 points from a hard pull ding.
6. Churning requries some discipline and reasonable organizational skills. Automate your CC payments, and keep a spreadsheet. I also use Yodlee, but they often fail to update.
7. In terms of getting multiple cards--if you have a relatively thin file, I would say Amex, BoA and Chase cards are the easiest to get; Barclays, Citi and US Bank are the hardest. However, Citi cards are easy to churn (in an original sense of the word) with an exception of AAdvantage that takes about 18-24 mths. Amex wants your account to be close for 12 months before you can get a new bonus on the same card, BoA is normally very easy, but most of their good cards have AF. Chase will usually take quite a long time to "forget" you. It seems to be around 2 years from the account closure, but there is some anecdotal evidence some folks can get their bonus eariler.
If you have any questions just shoot. Nice to meet you all!
@mnscoutNYC wrote:
@CreditScholar wrote:
@parakleet wrote:Discussions about vanilla reloads always brings out the ugly side of internet forum. This thread is looking like something you'd see on flyertalk.
+1. This is why I avoid flyertalk whenever possible. I've never seen a bigger collection of whining, overly-argumentative, self-entitled cheapskates in my life.
I mean I'm definitely not a fan of 5x+VRs, but I also know better than to waste time arguing about it with people (who I don't even know) over the internet.
LOL, I've been lurking here for a very long time, but I just had to register when I saw this. As a 10+ year Flyertalk member, I can't say I disagree. A lot of folks on FT act like that, and some can be outright nasty to newbies and feel as if they belong to an exclusive country club. Having said that, FT is an enormously useful resource for free or cheap travel, and I honestly would've never been able to travel the way I do if it weren't for Flyertalk. And there are still a lot of those who are more than happy to share knowledge or their experiences.
A disclaimer: I don't own FT or have any financial interest in it; well, I wish
Anyhow, on the subject of churning. I consider myself a relatively heavy churner, although it's not exactly the right term. I normally apply for 5-6 cards 3 times a year (4 if an especially good card comes along). I do not do MS other than to meet spend requirements. The reason for that is, it's extremely hard to come up with VR in NYC, and the nearest Walmart is 45-60 min away. Too much work. So, my only concern is sign up bonuses. I don't care for 3x, 4x, or 5x either. Again, too much work, and besides, I'm always busy meeting the spend.
A couple of thoughts for anyone who's interested in Churning 101. Understand, I don't want to come across as condescending. Just becouse you guys belong to this forum means you know way more about credit than regular folks. Still, churning must be taken seriously, and newbies need to have some protective measures in place.
1. It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway. In order to play this game successfully one should never carry a balance and must be able to meet the spend. The spend reauirements have gone up considerably over the years I've been doing this. It means you always gotta have more money coming in than going out in order to pay in full every month.
2. The good news is: I've been doing it for 10 years, the last 4-5 pretty heavily. While my score does flactuate, it always seems to remain in the 735-780 range. I could further optimize it by paying off balances long before the due date, but I really don't see the point. I almost never get denied.
3. I only cancel a credit card when the AF is due, that is if I decide to drop the card. There are some AF cards I'm happy to pay for due to their benefits. I discourage anyone to cancel the card immeadiately upon meeting the spend. Banks don't like it, and some issuers like Chase will claw back your miles if you close within 6 months (at least they say they will).
4. My AAoA has shrunk over the years. It's true. I obtain my first credit card in 1994, I believe. Yet, my AAoA is only 5.5 years. Am I concerned about it? No, at least not yet. AAoA is only a secondary factor, and it's much less important than UR.
5. Higher UR means that churning indeed may help you build your credit history. I know it sounds crazy, but higher UR beats the hell out of losing those initial 4-5 points from a hard pull ding.
6. Churning requries some discipline and reasonable organizational skills. Automate your CC payments, and keep a spreadsheet. I also use Yodlee, but they often fail to update.
7. In terms of getting multiple cards--if you have a relatively thin file, I would say Amex, BoA and Chase cards are the easiest to get; Barclays, Citi and US Bank are the hardest. However, Citi cards are easy to churn (in an original sense of the word) with an exception of AAdvantage that takes about 18-24 mths. Amex wants your account to be close for 12 months before you can get a new bonus on the same card, BoA is normally very easy, but most of their good cards have AF. Chase will usually take quite a long time to "forget" you. It seems to be around 2 years from the account closure, but there is some anecdotal evidence some folks can get their bonus eariler.
If you have any questions just shoot. Nice to meet you all!
Welcome to the forum
Thanks for sharing I found it very interesting indeed and hope to see more of you around here