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Why is it normal for banks to issue cards without showing their terms first?

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Why is it normal for banks to issue cards without showing their terms first?

Forgot to mention that with Chase I have actually been asked to confirm if I wanted the terms they could offer. I had to recon my Fairmont card and the Underwriter said they could approve it but it would be at the highest APR 23.24%, I said APR didn't matter to me as I PIF. I assume if I had said that I didn't want the higher APR they would have cancelled the app. I believe they asked because I had a BA card that had 16.24% that I wanted to roll in to the Fairmont, I lost the 16.24% but I don't care as APR is irrelevant as I PIF.  

Message 51 of 68
elim
Senior Contributor

Re: Why is it normal for banks to issue cards without showing their terms first?


@Anonymous wrote:

Evidence that it IS a poor practice - people closing their accounts 

 

Evidence that it IS a poor practice - people who don't use the account because they did not get the reward structure that they wanted. 

 

Evidence that it IS a poor practice - Chase Bank has made billions of dollars in profits and they do NOT follow this practice... and in fact Chase made way more than BOA. 

 

Your argument that it is making more in profit really has no credence. 


The dozens of people you refer to in your first two points are far outwighed by the thousands of people who use the cards.

 

As for your third point - Really?  Chase gives you the full terms (starting CL & APR per your OP) and allows you to back out before opening the account?  Since when?

 

 


What is your evidence that substituted cards get used as much? I am not arguing about the starting CL & APR, Chase does not substitute cards or steal the bonus in a way that BOA of does. For instance you can be approved for a $2,000 SL on a Southwest Visa Platinum, which means you just didn't get the Visa Signature version, the Southwest benefits remain the same and you are still eligible for the sign up bonus offer. BOA does not do that. As an example of a lender that will ask permission if the best terms are not granted, Bellco Credit Union. They always ask for acceptance before booking the application, and if they have to substitute their non rewards card they still ask for permission. It is a profitable practice and leads to happier consumers. This thread has been my take on what should happen, and another point to consider is that Chase gives out some serious bonuses and yet they are still able to make their portfolio more profitable than BOA, at the same time giving all approved people the opportunity to get the original bonus. 


  I have a list of APR's in my line-up.

 

 

 

rate
2.99%
17.15%
13.15%
0.00%
16.24%
16.24%
8.25%
6.99%
0.00%
0.00%
0.00%
1.99%
14.00%
13.24%
15.24%
 

 

You think most clients would use a higher APR account  to carry any balance???

 

Probably some but... with global data (Internet), things have changed. Even the idiot sheep aren't idiots any more.

 

 

Terms are golden for some, Choice matters to clients today. Even if clients use a pull for a benchmark measurement, a fee could be charged.

 

 

the next best thing is "the next best thing"

 

...

 

 

Message 52 of 68
longtimelurker
Epic Contributor

Re: Why is it normal for banks to issue cards without showing their terms first?


@Anonymous wrote:

 For instance you can be approved for a $2,000 SL on a Southwest Visa Platinum, which means you just didn't get the Visa Signature version, the Southwest benefits remain the same and you are still eligible for the sign up bonus offer. 


But, possibly, for some fraction of the fraction of people who care about this issue in the first place, the substitution of Visa Plat for Visa Sig benefits could also be a deal breaker.   I applied for the card expecting NPSL, various benefits etc, and now I don't get it.   Remove the trade line now.....

 

Why is that so different?

Message 53 of 68
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Why is it normal for banks to issue cards without showing their terms first?


@longtimelurker wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

 For instance you can be approved for a $2,000 SL on a Southwest Visa Platinum, which means you just didn't get the Visa Signature version, the Southwest benefits remain the same and you are still eligible for the sign up bonus offer. 


But, possibly, for some fraction of the fraction of people who care about this issue in the first place, the substitution of Visa Plat for Visa Sig benefits could also be a deal breaker.   I applied for the card expecting NPSL, various benefits etc, and now I don't get it.   Remove the trade line now.....

 

Why is that so different?


Because you can upgrade at a different date later. Sure you can upgrade with BOA later but you still miss out on the bonus. With Chase you have the oppurtunity to be made whole vs. BOA even if you upgrade later you were still jipped of the bonus. 

Message 54 of 68
Aahz
Established Contributor

Re: Why is it normal for banks to issue cards without showing their terms first?


@Anonymous wrote:

 

What is your evidence that substituted cards get used as much?


 

I've repeated my evidence several times: the profitability of the banks.

 

You have continually made the assertion that subsituted cards are a bad business practice.  

Yet you have continually failed to provide any evidence other than your personal opinion.

 

 

Message 55 of 68
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Why is it normal for banks to issue cards without showing their terms first?


@Aahz wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

 

What is your evidence that substituted cards get used as much?


 

I've repeated my evidence several times: the profitability of the banks.

 

You have continually made the assertion that subsituted cards are a bad business practice.  

Yet you have continually failed to provide any evidence other than your personal opinion.

 

 


No you sir fail to provide evidence. As I stated Chase has been more profitable than BOA. 

Message 56 of 68
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Why is it normal for banks to issue cards without showing their terms first?

A substituted card gets used more than NO card.  That isn't arguable.  If 100 people apply for a card and don't get it but all 100 are given a lesser (substitute) product, how many do you think will use that substitute product?  If your answer is > 0, it makes sense profit-wise for the bank as they are getting a new account.  I'd venture to guess that at least half of these people would still use the substitute.  Now, if the bank just flat out denied these 100 applicants their chances of getting a new account with any of these people is zero. 

Message 57 of 68
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Why is it normal for banks to issue cards without showing their terms first?


@Anonymous wrote:

A substituted card gets used more than NO card.  That isn't arguable.  If 100 people apply for a card and don't get it but all 100 are given a lesser (substitute) product, how many do you think will use that substitute product?  If your answer is > 0, it makes sense profit-wise for the bank as they are getting a new account.  I'd venture to guess that at least half of these people would still use the substitute.  Now, if the bank just flat out denied these 100 applicants their chances of getting a new account with any of these people is zero. 


Right but if all banks followed Chase's policy it would likely stop people from closing or using the card less. In this scenario the bank wins and the consumer wins. My main greviance is that banks either do not give out the bonus with the substituted product, or will not allow the card to be upgraded to a Visa Sig in the future. 

Message 58 of 68
Aahz
Established Contributor

Re: Why is it normal for banks to issue cards without showing their terms first?

Still zero evidence to support your theory.

 

Circular logic.

 

Moving of goal posts.

 

Enjoy your fanatasy world!

Message 59 of 68
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Why is it normal for banks to issue cards without showing their terms first?


@Anonymous wrote:


Right but if all banks followed Chase's policy it would likely stop people from closing or using the card less. In this scenario the bank wins and the consumer wins. My main greviance is that banks either do not give out the bonus with the substituted product, or will not allow the card to be upgraded to a Visa Sig in the future. 


And my argument will still be that people concerned with what you are talking about simply shouldn't apply until they are 100% certain that their profile/score meets the criteria for obtaining the product at the best terms.  If it takes a 730+ (for example) and an individual chooses to apply with a 650-729 they can be considered "on the cusp" [with repsect to approval and/or the best product terms] and are taking on greater risk in not getting what they want.  These individuals don't have any ground to stand on to complain if they don't get what they want.

Message 60 of 68
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