Will the Chase Sapphire Reserve be nerfed?

[UpperNwGuy]

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@Anonymous wrote:
True -

As far as the Chase Portal say you book a $750 round trip flight. You'd pay 50,000 UR, but Chase would likely use their points/miles valued at 1.7-2 cents (or more depending on the market) making a profit of .2-.5 cents. Not a huge profit, but profit nonetheless, not a loss. Unless there's something missing in my valuation?

And yeah, I guess if you're putting through 100-200k a year just on "Travel" (what Chase considers Travel), then that extra 1 point per spent can add up, but for other categories of spend not so much.

As many say YMMV

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If you spend $10,000 a year on travel and dining, the CSR beats the CSP by $145, assuming you use the portal in both cases.  If you transfer the miles to an airline partner in both cases, the CSR beats the CSP by $95.  If you consider the Priority Pass and Global Entry to be of value to you, the gap between the two cards increases.  I live on a fixed income and will never exceed $10,000 in travel and dining spending per year, and I consider any amount over $100 to be significant, so I'm keeping the CSR.

[Anonymous]

UpperNwGuy - What percentage of people with CSR/CSP actually use the portal?

But for arguments sake,

If you manage to spend $10,000 annually on what Chase considers Travel sure CSR beats CSP. Everyone has different spend. I spend about 40k annually on overseas purchases so an unlimited 1.5-2% card with no FTF would be more beneficial.

YMMV

Also, your valuations are off on the partner points.

Spending $10,000 solely on "Travel" with CSR gets you:

30k UR with CSR - $150 AF (effective)
20k UR with CSP - $95 AF (which is waived for the first year so that's another big factor, but let's assume it's the 2nd year).

So you get 10k more UR but also pay $55 more.

[UpperNwGuy]

Matt:  The only point I am trying to make is that the CSR yields higher returns than the CSP.  It doesn't matter if you use the portal or transfer your points to airline miles.  The statement is equally true.  I have no idea what percentage of cardholders use the portal, but the answer is unimportant to my point.  For the airline miles, I used the values assigned by The Points Guy, One Mile at a Time, and The View from the Wing.  As for annual fees, the CSR's net $150 pays itself off faster than does the CSP's $95.  As for the difference in rewards, I've given you some very specific values in my earlier posts.  As for your own situation, I gave you my opinion last week that your spending pattern does not match up well with any of the premium travel cards.  I don't understand why you keep bashing the CSR.  Just because it doesn't fit your spending pattern doesn't mean that it won't work for others.  It works for me.

[Anonymous]

Where am I at all bashing the CSR???

If you read my posts I'm in favor of it, I would just strongly hope that they increase the sign up bonus to 75-80k even if it's not publicly available and only available through Targeted Offers.

But at the same time I wish Chase categorized more things as "Travel", whereas BofA a lot more are considered Travel.

I'm also just trying to agree with another poster who said CSP is the way to go. There's no AF for your first year, you have most of the same benefits, and no $450 fee due up front.

CSR is a good card, I just think "nerfing" it would be a huge mistake. Chase already didn't give it the Visa Infinite benefit of $100 flight discounts, which the Ritz Carlton card has being a Visa Infinite Card. You know?

[MrDisco99]

Do any other VI cards have that benefit?

[Anonymous]

I hope not! I Iove my CSR, with that being said the CSP is not a bad card I loved it as well and I would just go back to that. What would kill me would be the non be able to tansfer from the Freedom and Freedom Unlimited. I would HATE that and probably move my spend to Amex and get a PRG to go with my platinum.

As far as CSP vs CSR I was one who actually PCd my CSP to the CSR  a few months ago (without a gasp bonus 50k or 100K) and it was worth it. Mainly for me I was paying for my wedding which coded as travel since it was at a resort. That was 51000 points vs 34000 points in one transaction. Also some mentioned not using the portal. I paid for our entire honeymoon with points. I directly transferred to SWA from two flights to the Caymans but then used the portal for the hotel in the Caymans, the Kimpton which was amazing. The 1.5 vs. 1.25 made a big difference.

I get it its different for everybody but if you travel or eat out I can't magine how the CSP is better.

[Anonymous]

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@MrDisco99 wrote:

Do any other VI cards have that benefit?

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US Bank Altitude Reserve does. The poster you are responding to is fixated on a benefit that would work well for him, but is unwilling to pick up a card that has it. CSR has vastly superior earning structure instead, and the earning structure and benefits package blows the Ritz and AR out of the water for most users. 

The CSR as it is now is so good that I would PC to it if my spouse didn't have it already. It is the best card on the market for big spenders with the possible exception of the Prestige for people that fit the 4th night benefit well. If it gets nerfed, I believe customers will ditch in droves. 

[Anonymous]

Climbfire - "It is the best card on the market for big spenders".

It all depends on where your spend is...if you spend in anything non-travel the CSP isn't the best card, the FU would be comparable in that scenario aside from the transfer to partners...

Example: 10k spend on Fuel/Department Stores/Amusement Parks/Ski Lodges etc. using FU you'd get 15k UR

10k spend on Fuel/Department Stores/Amusement Parks/Ski Lodges etc. using FU you'd get 10k UR (worth 15k UR when redeeming through Chase Portal).


But YES, if you travel and spend 10k+ annually on things Chase considers "Travel" CSR would be a good card.

Also, you say, "The poster you are responding to is fixated on a benefit".

How many other Visa Infinite US cards don't have the $100 benefit? As far as I know of, none. So it doesn't make sense that it's a VI card, might as well just not call it that IMHO.

[Anonymous]

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@red259 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
Chase didn't win by social media picking up on the card. They lost big time. They got a bunch of people who were interested in the 100000 points the 600 dollar credit. These people stopped using the card as soon as they met spending requirement. Never carried a balance. They made the offer too good. Now the preffered is the better deal.

I find it ironic Chase has their 5/24 rule and got so badly burned. They wanted to market to millenials which is silly for a card with a 450 dollar annual fee. Market that to people in their 40s and 50s who can put a ton of money through the card.


As bad as Chase as screwed me over in the past it makes me happy to see them fail.

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I kinda doubt they just stopped using the CSR card. The bonus categories for restaurants and travel make it very appealing to use the card for those reasons (I know I use the CSR quite a bit) and I'm sure chase brought in some people who are not hard core churners (but saw the 100k signup and went for it) who would likely use the card for all their spend for the next year before closing it. 

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I get 3 percent on restaurants with NFCU go rewards and it has no annual fee.  Most people are probably not taking more than two vacations with airfare a year.   1600 dollars pays for a lot of airfare for most people.  I will fly on 3 vacations this year and I am above the norm I would assume.  most people who have more than 3 airfare trips a year are probably flying for business and they aren't paying for anything anyway.  

[Anonymous]

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@red259 wrote:

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@UpperNwGuy wrote:

Actually, the CSP is a better deal than the CSR only if you spend less than $4000 a year on travel and dining.  And at that low level of spending, the Citi Double Cash beats both the CSP and the CSR.  At $6000 of travel and dining spending, the CSR catches the Double Cash.  The CSP doesn't catch the Double Cash until $9500 of travel and dining spending -- and that's assuming that CSP UR points are worth $.015 each via transfer to airline partners rather than $.0125 each through the Chase travel portal.

 My formula:  (spending x rewards rate - net annual fee) / spending

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I think this may confuse people. There are a ton of benefits you get with the CSR that you do not get with the double cash. If you use those benefits you will come out way ahead with the CSR. In addition I find your point valuation of .015 to be low. I often can redeem for .020 or more per point. Its really difficult to come up with a hard and fast formula when different people use cards in different ways and get different benefits. If you were comparing two straight cash back cards together it would be a bit easier. Cash back vs point values will vary depending on how those points are used. 

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I think some of you are basing it on keeping the card.  I am talking about churners who won't use the card after the bonus.  To them CSP should be better deal.  I bet a lot of people who got CSR just took the 1000 dollars cash and the 600 dollar travel credit and we're done with the card.  They made a nice 1150 profit and were on their way.  To me the lounge access and higher rewards for travel are useless as I could churn another card with my hotel spending and I am getting free airfare anyway.