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Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

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Regular Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?


@OmarGB9 wrote:

I don't think they can tell, especially if the same balance seems to post month to month. As for whether they care, I would think they would if it looks like your balances across all cards never seem to go down. Even worse if your balances start increasing every month.


I'm mortified Smiley Happy

 

I have always approached credit card usage as a way to "float" money that I know I already have for an extra month and a half due to the lag between when charges post, the statement cuts, and the due date. Am I doing anything with that "float" money? No. But it always feels so great to feel like you had the money in your bank for an extra month and a half (even though I did not need that extra time).  Am I doing this wrong? Smiley Very Happy

 

I suppose my CR looks like I've been carrying a constant balance for the last year then.... Smiley Happy . But that's just me having incredibly predictable and constant monthly expenses that get paid off by the due date everytime. AZEO be damned Smiley Happy 

Message 11 of 24
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Established Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?


@Credit12Fico wrote:

@OmarGB9 wrote:

I don't think they can tell, especially if the same balance seems to post month to month. As for whether they care, I would think they would if it looks like your balances across all cards never seem to go down. Even worse if your balances start increasing every month.


I'm mortified Smiley Happy

 

I have always approached credit card usage as a way to "float" money that I know I already have for an extra month and a half due to the lag between when charges post, the statement cuts, and the due date. Am I doing anything with that "float" money? No. But it always feels so great to feel like you had the money in your bank for an extra month and a half (even though I did not need that extra time).  Am I doing this wrong? Smiley Very Happy

 

I suppose my CR looks like I've been carrying a constant balance for the last year then.... Smiley Happy . But that's just me having incredibly predictable and constant monthly expenses that get paid off by the due date everytime. AZEO be damned Smiley Happy 


AZEO only matters when you're planning on applying for new credit within the next month. There's very little point in keeping up AZEO month after month while you're just gardening.* There's no substantial harm in having larger balances shown on all your cards every month, as long as you go AZEO during the month before you actually apply for new credit.

 

*Historical balances matter some with the new VA4 and FICO 10T scoring models that use trended data, but don't matter at all for the other (most widely used) scoring models

    Combined Loan Balances: $29k / $70k
    Total SL: $26.9k
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Message 12 of 24
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Valued Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

The article is old but the answer is yes depending on the loan. I know this data is supplied for real estate loans. Not sure if it is supplied with other types  of loans.

 

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/trended-data-credit-bureaus-1270/

 

08/2020 Discover TU FICO 811 8/2020 Citibank Equifax FICO 825
AAOA 15 years
Message 13 of 24
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Established Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

What they can see is whether your total debt is overall growing, shrinking, or staying the same. While that's not quite the same as seeing that you PIF, it's close -- overall your utilization will remain stable, and not grow, as your balance reflects your monthly spend, and, overall, your utilization on that should be  low since your monthly spend shouldn't be a large fraction of your credit limit.


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Last Inq 06/2020
Message 14 of 24
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Super Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

It’s quite simple; all three bureaus are prepared to accept payment information; there are fields in the metro2 format that is used between furnisher and bureau; however all lenders do not supply this data, which is the potential Achilles’ heel for the full capability of trended data.

I must assume that the algorithm creators found a way to get the other CCCs to start reporting that information soon to make their product work better. If not, I guess it can only take into account the trended history of accounts from institutions that report that data. Or should I say the information will be limited; if they have to calculate from only balance data and not also payment data, it is still possible to establish patterns and trends with just the balance data, but it would obviously be more comprehensive with payment data.

When a creditor looks a tradeline up from another creditor and they see no late payment but the balance steady, it’s obvious payments are being made and their computers parse the data and they have their own algorithms to evaluate the data.

You can bet they look to see if balances continue a trend of increasing or if they simply follow a bumpy pattern which illustrates regular spending and payments or if there’s a trend downward.

In the absence of payment information, they have to use balance information, but there may be a day soon when all payment information is reported to make trended data work better. I’m sure the algorithm creators have incentives for these institutions to provide that data to make their algorithms work better.

As long as you’re not following an upward trend you probably look fine to them, imho.
For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

    




Updated Sept 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 15 of 24
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Valued Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

Keep in mind a creditor is reporting to the bureau each month. The credit bureau upon request of the lender or creditor reporting agency will deliver the credit data back in a data format that may or may not be in a Metro 2 format. What information is returned by the bureau is based the subscriber code that was used to pull report and what is requested by the lender.  The credit bureau will store all the information reported by creditor each month.

08/2020 Discover TU FICO 811 8/2020 Citibank Equifax FICO 825
AAOA 15 years
Message 16 of 24
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Super Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

That may be true but I doubt Chase is gonna pull a credit report with an employment code. I’m pretty sure they’re going to code it as a hard pull for credit or as an account review pull for an account review pull. Consequently I’m sure they’ll probably get it in the proper format.
For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

    




Updated Sept 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 17 of 24
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Valued Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

To clarify: The subscriber code is the account that creditor used to pull the credit report. What product(s) like scores etc is based on what is enabled for the subscriber code.  A hard pull is supposed to be done in the case of the pursuit of new credit which includes credit limit increase(s) and new accounts. Some lenders in the credit limit increase case will use a soft pull but it is upto the lender.

08/2020 Discover TU FICO 811 8/2020 Citibank Equifax FICO 825
AAOA 15 years
Message 18 of 24
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Super Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

Yes it is up to the lender but the information they receive, whether hard inquiry or soft inquiry, should be the same as they would be using a seeking credit hard inquiry or an account review soft inquiry.

Am I my missing something?
For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

    




Updated Sept 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 19 of 24
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Community Leader
Super Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?


@Birdman7 wrote:
Yes it is up to the lender but the information they receive, whether hard inquiry or soft inquiry, should be the same as they would be using a seeking credit hard inquiry or an account review soft inquiry.

Am I my missing something?

Nope.



(8/2020)
FICO 8 (EX) 811 (TU) 805 (EQ) 793
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Message 20 of 24
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