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Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

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Credit12Fico
Established Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?


@OmarGB9 wrote:

I don't think they can tell, especially if the same balance seems to post month to month. As for whether they care, I would think they would if it looks like your balances across all cards never seem to go down. Even worse if your balances start increasing every month.


I'm mortified Smiley Happy

 

I have always approached credit card usage as a way to "float" money that I know I already have for an extra month and a half due to the lag between when charges post, the statement cuts, and the due date. Am I doing anything with that "float" money? No. But it always feels so great to feel like you had the money in your bank for an extra month and a half (even though I did not need that extra time).  Am I doing this wrong? Smiley Very Happy

 

I suppose my CR looks like I've been carrying a constant balance for the last year then.... Smiley Happy . But that's just me having incredibly predictable and constant monthly expenses that get paid off by the due date everytime. AZEO be damned Smiley Happy 

Message 11 of 24
coreysw12
Valued Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?


@Credit12Fico wrote:

@OmarGB9 wrote:

I don't think they can tell, especially if the same balance seems to post month to month. As for whether they care, I would think they would if it looks like your balances across all cards never seem to go down. Even worse if your balances start increasing every month.


I'm mortified Smiley Happy

 

I have always approached credit card usage as a way to "float" money that I know I already have for an extra month and a half due to the lag between when charges post, the statement cuts, and the due date. Am I doing anything with that "float" money? No. But it always feels so great to feel like you had the money in your bank for an extra month and a half (even though I did not need that extra time).  Am I doing this wrong? Smiley Very Happy

 

I suppose my CR looks like I've been carrying a constant balance for the last year then.... Smiley Happy . But that's just me having incredibly predictable and constant monthly expenses that get paid off by the due date everytime. AZEO be damned Smiley Happy 


AZEO only matters when you're planning on applying for new credit within the next month. There's very little point in keeping up AZEO month after month while you're just gardening.* There's no substantial harm in having larger balances shown on all your cards every month, as long as you go AZEO during the month before you actually apply for new credit.

 

*Historical balances matter some with the new VA4 and FICO 10T scoring models that use trended data, but don't matter at all for the other (most widely used) scoring models

    Total Loan Balance: $43k / $65k


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Message 12 of 24
AndySoCal
Valued Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

The article is old but the answer is yes depending on the loan. I know this data is supplied for real estate loans. Not sure if it is supplied with other types  of loans.

 

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/trended-data-credit-bureaus-1270/

 

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Message 13 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

What they can see is whether your total debt is overall growing, shrinking, or staying the same. While that's not quite the same as seeing that you PIF, it's close -- overall your utilization will remain stable, and not grow, as your balance reflects your monthly spend, and, overall, your utilization on that should be  low since your monthly spend shouldn't be a large fraction of your credit limit.

Message 14 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

It’s quite simple; all three bureaus are prepared to accept payment information; there are fields in the metro2 format that is used between furnisher and bureau; however all lenders do not supply this data, which is the potential Achilles’ heel for the full capability of trended data.

I must assume that the algorithm creators found a way to get the other CCCs to start reporting that information soon to make their product work better. If not, I guess it can only take into account the trended history of accounts from institutions that report that data. Or should I say the information will be limited; if they have to calculate from only balance data and not also payment data, it is still possible to establish patterns and trends with just the balance data, but it would obviously be more comprehensive with payment data.

When a creditor looks a tradeline up from another creditor and they see no late payment but the balance steady, it’s obvious payments are being made and their computers parse the data and they have their own algorithms to evaluate the data.

You can bet they look to see if balances continue a trend of increasing or if they simply follow a bumpy pattern which illustrates regular spending and payments or if there’s a trend downward.

In the absence of payment information, they have to use balance information, but there may be a day soon when all payment information is reported to make trended data work better. I’m sure the algorithm creators have incentives for these institutions to provide that data to make their algorithms work better.

As long as you’re not following an upward trend you probably look fine to them, imho.
Message 15 of 24
AndySoCal
Valued Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

Keep in mind a creditor is reporting to the bureau each month. The credit bureau upon request of the lender or creditor reporting agency will deliver the credit data back in a data format that may or may not be in a Metro 2 format. What information is returned by the bureau is based the subscriber code that was used to pull report and what is requested by the lender.  The credit bureau will store all the information reported by creditor each month.

FICO Scores XPN v8 802 V2 831 (SDFCU) TUC 803 v8 EFX 807 (10/2023)
Discover 09/90 19,000, JCPenney 10/2008 4,700 US Bank Cash+ 12,000 Citibank Custom Cash 5/2015 11,100 C State Dept. FCU 15,000 06/2023 , 02/2024 Redstone FCU Signature VISA 10,000 Banking: Ally Bank Credit Unions: Lafayette FCU Quorum FCU State Department FCU State Department FCU Pelican State CU Redstone FCU

Message 16 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

That may be true but I doubt Chase is gonna pull a credit report with an employment code. I’m pretty sure they’re going to code it as a hard pull for credit or as an account review pull for an account review pull. Consequently I’m sure they’ll probably get it in the proper format.
Message 17 of 24
AndySoCal
Valued Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

To clarify: The subscriber code is the account that creditor used to pull the credit report. What product(s) like scores etc is based on what is enabled for the subscriber code.  A hard pull is supposed to be done in the case of the pursuit of new credit which includes credit limit increase(s) and new accounts. Some lenders in the credit limit increase case will use a soft pull but it is upto the lender.

FICO Scores XPN v8 802 V2 831 (SDFCU) TUC 803 v8 EFX 807 (10/2023)
Discover 09/90 19,000, JCPenney 10/2008 4,700 US Bank Cash+ 12,000 Citibank Custom Cash 5/2015 11,100 C State Dept. FCU 15,000 06/2023 , 02/2024 Redstone FCU Signature VISA 10,000 Banking: Ally Bank Credit Unions: Lafayette FCU Quorum FCU State Department FCU State Department FCU Pelican State CU Redstone FCU

Message 18 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?

Yes it is up to the lender but the information they receive, whether hard inquiry or soft inquiry, should be the same as they would be using a seeking credit hard inquiry or an account review soft inquiry.

Am I my missing something?
Message 19 of 24
coldfusion
Community Leader
Mega Contributor

Re: Can banks tell the difference between PIF and minimum payment?


@Anonymous wrote:
Yes it is up to the lender but the information they receive, whether hard inquiry or soft inquiry, should be the same as they would be using a seeking credit hard inquiry or an account review soft inquiry.

Am I my missing something?

Nope.

(3/2024)
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Artist formerly known as the_old_curmudgeon who was formerly known as coldfusion
Message 20 of 24
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