FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes

[joeyv1985]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@joeyv1985 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@joeyv1985 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

@joeyv1985 well if you got an American Express in November, you're good, there won't be a scorecard change yet. I'll look forward to your data points! Congratulations it sounds like you're making nice progress!

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Helllo Birdman, 

My car loan finally reported PIF and it dropped my FICO 8's 9-18pts across all reports. CL increased $1500 to $33,500 and I show a $21 balance on my Revolvers(sans my AMEX Plat showing $650) using the AZEO method. Mortgage, opened in May 2019, is the only installment loan open. No lates. Not sure why the net result would be an increase of my resilience score going up 4 pts to 60. Also my 3B report shows  that an HP fell off.

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@joeyv1985 Hi, thank you for coming back with the data points. Could you please tell me the before and after aggregate loan utilization? (Or I can calculate it if you give me the original mortgage and car loan balances and the current mortgage balance and the last car loan balance before payoff.)

also you just mentioned the AMEX platinum. Can you please clarify the card you recently got, did you say November 2020, was it a open-ended chargecard or a revolver? Trying to determine the age of your youngest account and the age of your youngest Revolver? (My previous statement was assuming it was a Revolver from 11/20.)

also if it was a charge card it would be great to see if that did cause Scorecard change. 

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Hello Birdman,

The Amex Plat was a standard Charge card. Applied on 11/28/2021 and  got the card less than a week later. Here are my other cards

Capital One 10/15(Open Date),  $4K(CL),  $0 (Balance)

Citi DC 1/20, $14,000, $21

Citi AAD(In process of Switching to Citi Premier) 2/20, $10,500, $0

CSP 2/20, $5k, $0

Mortagage 5/19, $122,550, Current Balance: $118,187

Auto: 11/19, Loan $20,392, $638(Last reported Balance before PIF). The car was PIF in December, the $638 showed up in my 2/13 3B report. 

The car loan was actually a refi. The originial car loan was taken out Sept/Oct of 2017 @ 12% via Cap One. Refinanced in 11/19 with Wells Fargo, a baddy fell off in December of 2019 then my FICO's shot up. I wanted to stretch this out as much as possible but didn't want to continue to pay the high interest rates and I also wanted to establish a relationship with Wells Fargo Auto.  Oh well. Since the car loan is out of the way, I'm just going to put extra $ towards the mortgage principal. I have no need to open accounts for the next 2 years or so. 

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@joeyv1985 you are in the unique position to resolve whether a charge card causes new account segmentation for version 8/9. Can you please list your negative Reason Codes for 8/9?

Once time has passed if you don't open any new accounts we would also be able to resolve that question for 5/4/2. 

i'll return with any thing I determine after I calculate the utilization. 

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Hello Birdman,

Not sure what you mean by Negative Reasons Codes for 8/9. 

[Anonymous]

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@joeyv1985 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

---

@joeyv1985 wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@joeyv1985 wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

@joeyv1985 well if you got an American Express in November, you're good, there won't be a scorecard change yet. I'll look forward to your data points! Congratulations it sounds like you're making nice progress!

---

Helllo Birdman, 

My car loan finally reported PIF and it dropped my FICO 8's 9-18pts across all reports. CL increased $1500 to $33,500 and I show a $21 balance on my Revolvers(sans my AMEX Plat showing $650) using the AZEO method. Mortgage, opened in May 2019, is the only installment loan open. No lates. Not sure why the net result would be an increase of my resilience score going up 4 pts to 60. Also my 3B report shows  that an HP fell off.

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@joeyv1985 Hi, thank you for coming back with the data points. Could you please tell me the before and after aggregate loan utilization? (Or I can calculate it if you give me the original mortgage and car loan balances and the current mortgage balance and the last car loan balance before payoff.)

also you just mentioned the AMEX platinum. Can you please clarify the card you recently got, did you say November 2020, was it a open-ended chargecard or a revolver? Trying to determine the age of your youngest account and the age of your youngest Revolver? (My previous statement was assuming it was a Revolver from 11/20.)

also if it was a charge card it would be great to see if that did cause Scorecard change. 

---

Hello Birdman,

The Amex Plat was a standard Charge card. Applied on 11/28/2021 and  got the card less than a week later. Here are my other cards

Capital One 10/15(Open Date),  $4K(CL),  $0 (Balance)

Citi DC 1/20, $14,000, $21

Citi AAD(In process of Switching to Citi Premier) 2/20, $10,500, $0

CSP 2/20, $5k, $0

Mortagage 5/19, $122,550, Current Balance: $118,187

Auto: 11/19, Loan $20,392, $638(Last reported Balance before PIF). The car was PIF in December, the $638 showed up in my 2/13 3B report. 

The car loan was actually a refi. The originial car loan was taken out Sept/Oct of 2017 @ 12% via Cap One. Refinanced in 11/19 with Wells Fargo, a baddy fell off in December of 2019 then my FICO's shot up. I wanted to stretch this out as much as possible but didn't want to continue to pay the high interest rates and I also wanted to establish a relationship with Wells Fargo Auto.  Oh well. Since the car loan is out of the way, I'm just going to put extra $ towards the mortgage principal. I have no need to open accounts for the next 2 years or so. 

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@joeyv1985 you are in the unique position to resolve whether a charge card causes new account segmentation for version 8/9. Can you please list your negative Reason Codes for 8/9?

Once time has passed if you don't open any new accounts we would also be able to resolve that question for 5/4/2. 

i'll return with any thing I determine after I calculate the utilization. 

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Hello Birdman,

Not sure what you mean by Negative Reasons Codes for 8/9. 

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@joeyv1985 whenever you get your score, there are typically negative Score Factors listed that give reasons which could increase your score if resolved. They are called negative Reason Codes or Negative Score Factors. Where are you sourcing your version 8 and 9 scores?

[joeyv1985]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@joeyv1985 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

---

@joeyv1985 wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@joeyv1985 wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

@joeyv1985 well if you got an American Express in November, you're good, there won't be a scorecard change yet. I'll look forward to your data points! Congratulations it sounds like you're making nice progress!

---

Helllo Birdman, 

My car loan finally reported PIF and it dropped my FICO 8's 9-18pts across all reports. CL increased $1500 to $33,500 and I show a $21 balance on my Revolvers(sans my AMEX Plat showing $650) using the AZEO method. Mortgage, opened in May 2019, is the only installment loan open. No lates. Not sure why the net result would be an increase of my resilience score going up 4 pts to 60. Also my 3B report shows  that an HP fell off.

---

@joeyv1985 Hi, thank you for coming back with the data points. Could you please tell me the before and after aggregate loan utilization? (Or I can calculate it if you give me the original mortgage and car loan balances and the current mortgage balance and the last car loan balance before payoff.)

also you just mentioned the AMEX platinum. Can you please clarify the card you recently got, did you say November 2020, was it a open-ended chargecard or a revolver? Trying to determine the age of your youngest account and the age of your youngest Revolver? (My previous statement was assuming it was a Revolver from 11/20.)

also if it was a charge card it would be great to see if that did cause Scorecard change. 

---

Hello Birdman,

The Amex Plat was a standard Charge card. Applied on 11/28/2021 and  got the card less than a week later. Here are my other cards

Capital One 10/15(Open Date),  $4K(CL),  $0 (Balance)

Citi DC 1/20, $14,000, $21

Citi AAD(In process of Switching to Citi Premier) 2/20, $10,500, $0

CSP 2/20, $5k, $0

Mortagage 5/19, $122,550, Current Balance: $118,187

Auto: 11/19, Loan $20,392, $638(Last reported Balance before PIF). The car was PIF in December, the $638 showed up in my 2/13 3B report. 

The car loan was actually a refi. The originial car loan was taken out Sept/Oct of 2017 @ 12% via Cap One. Refinanced in 11/19 with Wells Fargo, a baddy fell off in December of 2019 then my FICO's shot up. I wanted to stretch this out as much as possible but didn't want to continue to pay the high interest rates and I also wanted to establish a relationship with Wells Fargo Auto.  Oh well. Since the car loan is out of the way, I'm just going to put extra $ towards the mortgage principal. I have no need to open accounts for the next 2 years or so. 

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@joeyv1985 you are in the unique position to resolve whether a charge card causes new account segmentation for version 8/9. Can you please list your negative Reason Codes for 8/9?

Once time has passed if you don't open any new accounts we would also be able to resolve that question for 5/4/2. 

i'll return with any thing I determine after I calculate the utilization. 

---

Hello Birdman,

Not sure what you mean by Negative Reasons Codes for 8/9. 

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@joeyv1985 whenever you get your score, there are typically negative Score Factors listed that give reasons which could increase your score if resolved. They are called negative Reason Scores or Negative Score Factors. Where are you sourcing your version 8 and 9 scores?

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Gotcha. I get my Fico scores through MyFico

The reason for the drop all seem about the same for TU, AXP and EQ

Account paid and closed

Balance went from $684 to 0

Length of time of revolving accounts have been established

Proportion of Loan Balances to loan amounts are too high

Time of most recent account opened is too short

Too many accounts with balances(Huh?)

[joeyv1985]

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@Anonymous wrote:

---

@joeyv1985 wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@joeyv1985 wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

@joeyv1985 well if you got an American Express in November, you're good, there won't be a scorecard change yet. I'll look forward to your data points! Congratulations it sounds like you're making nice progress!

---

Helllo Birdman, 

My car loan finally reported PIF and it dropped my FICO 8's 9-18pts across all reports. CL increased $1500 to $33,500 and I show a $21 balance on my Revolvers(sans my AMEX Plat showing $650) using the AZEO method. Mortgage, opened in May 2019, is the only installment loan open. No lates. Not sure why the net result would be an increase of my resilience score going up 4 pts to 60. Also my 3B report shows  that an HP fell off.

---

@joeyv1985 Hi, thank you for coming back with the data points. Could you please tell me the before and after aggregate loan utilization? (Or I can calculate it if you give me the original mortgage and car loan balances and the current mortgage balance and the last car loan balance before payoff.)

also you just mentioned the AMEX platinum. Can you please clarify the card you recently got, did you say November 2020, was it a open-ended chargecard or a revolver? Trying to determine the age of your youngest account and the age of your youngest Revolver? (My previous statement was assuming it was a Revolver from 11/20.)

also if it was a charge card it would be great to see if that did cause Scorecard change. 

---

Hello Birdman,

The Amex Plat was a standard Charge card. Applied on 11/28/2021 and  got the card less than a week later. Here are my other cards

Capital One 10/15(Open Date),  $4K(CL),  $0 (Balance)

Citi DC 1/20, $14,000, $21

Citi AAD(In process of Switching to Citi Premier) 2/20, $10,500, $0

CSP 2/20, $5k, $0

Mortagage 5/19, $122,550, Current Balance: $118,187

Auto: 11/19, Loan $20,392, $638(Last reported Balance before PIF). The car was PIF in December, the $638 showed up in my 2/13 3B report. 

The car loan was actually a refi. The originial car loan was taken out Sept/Oct of 2017 @ 12% via Cap One. Refinanced in 11/19 with Wells Fargo, a baddy fell off in December of 2019 then my FICO's shot up. I wanted to stretch this out as much as possible but didn't want to continue to pay the high interest rates and I also wanted to establish a relationship with Wells Fargo Auto.  Oh well. Since the car loan is out of the way, I'm just going to put extra $ towards the mortgage principal. I have no need to open accounts for the next 2 years or so. 

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@joeyv1985 you are in the unique position to resolve whether a charge card causes new account segmentation for version 8/9. Can you please list your negative Reason Codes for 8/9?

Once time has passed if you don't open any new accounts we would also be able to resolve that question for 5/4/2. 

i'll return with any thing I determine after I calculate the utilization. 

@joeyv1985 your loan utilization went from 83% to 96% and you said you lost from 9 to 18 points. I don't know if we can draw any firm conclusions from that as there have been some reported Thresholds in between there, but that does seem a little high. 

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I can only assume the 83% to 96% is because the auto no longer factors in. If the original mortgage balance was $122,550, where does the balance of the mortgage have to be to recoup the points lost? $110K? As mentioned, it's the next thing I'm going to tackle. 

[SecretAzure]

I got my resillience score today. I'm a little disappointed. I expected to be somewhere around the middle of the pack but I'm in worse shape than I thought.

Resillience Score: 64

Red Flags: 2

Flag Descriptions: Amount of Debt (High installment loan balances), Credit Mix (High percent of revolving accounts)

• I refinanced last year to consolidate two mortgages into one at a lower interest rate. I expected this to play a factor. I have sub $200 debt on my credit cards atm. 
• Now that I'm down to 1 mortgage, 7 credit cards, and 0 other loans I kind of understand that my mix is not the best. However, I'm baffled by the "High percent of revolving accounts." It doesn't feel like I have that many cards. Then again, I'm comparing myself to this community lol.

I could cancel my Marvel card which became a lot less attractive since Chase Freedom Unlimited got Dining at 3%. 

Should I bother even changing anything at this point? I know this is a new measuring thing and doesn't really have too much value at this point.

Happy to know my FICO scores are at a good place though. 802 EQ / 809 TU / 797EX with a HP falling off in a couple of weeks and another HP aging to 1 year this week across all reports. 

[Anonymous]

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@SecretAzure wrote:

I got my resillience score today. I'm a little disappointed. I expected to be somewhere around the middle of the pack but I'm in worse shape than I thought.

Resillience Score: 64

Red Flags: 2

Flag Descriptions: Amount of Debt (High installment loan balances), Credit Mix (High percent of revolving accounts)

• I refinanced last year to consolidate two mortgages into one at a lower interest rate. I expected this to play a factor. I have sub $200 debt on my credit cards atm. 
• Now that I'm down to 1 mortgage, 7 credit cards, and 0 other loans I kind of understand that my mix is not the best. However, I'm baffled by the "High percent of revolving accounts." It doesn't feel like I have that many cards. Then again, I'm comparing myself to this community lol.

I could cancel my Marvel card which became a lot less attractive since Chase Freedom Unlimited got Dining at 3%. 

Should I bother even changing anything at this point? I know this is a new measuring thing and doesn't really have too much value at this point.

Happy to know my FICO scores are at a good place though. 802 EQ / 809 TU / 797EX with a HP falling off in a couple of weeks and another HP aging to 1 year this week across all reports. 

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@SecretAzure I would not cancel a card based on the resiliency score. 7 credit cards is great in my opinion, it gives you the opportunity to hit low percentages of AWB (accounts with a balance) and as for mix with a mortgage and a prior installment loan you're good as far as Credit Scoring, but I don't know if the resiliency takes into account closed accounts? Either way if any of those seven are retail that could be considered another Credit type potentially as well.

@joeyv1985 Joey I have created a separate thread for our discussion, so we do not detract from the topic. for you & those following it is at:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/New-Open-ended-account-appears-to-cause-...

[joeyv1985]

I saw that. Thank you. 

[Anonymous]

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@SecretAzure wrote:

I got my resillience score today. I'm a little disappointed. I expected to be somewhere around the middle of the pack but I'm in worse shape than I thought.

Resillience Score: 64

Red Flags: 2

Flag Descriptions: Amount of Debt (High installment loan balances), Credit Mix (High percent of revolving accounts)

• I refinanced last year to consolidate two mortgages into one at a lower interest rate. I expected this to play a factor. I have sub $200 debt on my credit cards atm. 
• Now that I'm down to 1 mortgage, 7 credit cards, and 0 other loans I kind of understand that my mix is not the best. However, I'm baffled by the "High percent of revolving accounts." It doesn't feel like I have that many cards. Then again, I'm comparing myself to this community lol.

Don't worry about that one. It's because 87.5% (7 revolving / 8 total accounts) of your accounts are revolving. A FICO paper on this score shows higher resilience with "installment loans comprising at least half of all tradelines".

I have 4 open credit card accounts and 1 closed loan, so I get the same reason statement. I'm not changing anything on my file.

I could cancel my Marvel card which became a lot less attractive since Chase Freedom Unlimited got Dining at 3%. 

Should I bother even changing anything at this point? I know this is a new measuring thing and doesn't really have too much value at this point.

Happy to know my FICO scores are at a good place though. 802 EQ / 809 TU / 797EX with a HP falling off in a couple of weeks and another HP aging to 1 year this week across all reports. 

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Oh no, you're doing just fine now. This score is most likely to be used for people on the edge of what a lender usually accepts. Something like a 670-690 FICO score and maybe 1 or 2 non-recent lates.

FICO usually talks about this score as enabling lenders to accept more people that would have been outright denied using their regular algorithms. It doesn't seem like they would bother for people with 740+ scores.

[sarge12]

It is ironic that the very actions that we have used to get 800+ scores, made us less resilient. Opening many cards with high limits, keeping utilization low. That gets me dinged for too many revolving accounts, to many balances on revolvers or whatever it said. Seems they did this new score just to knock us in the 800 club off our high horses. We learned to play their game, so now they create a new game with different rules. Aint that cheating?

[Anonymous]

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@sarge12 wrote:

It is ironic that the very actions that we have used to get 800+ scores, made us less resilient. Opening many cards with high limits, keeping utilization low. That gets me dinged for too many revolving accounts, to many balances on revolvers or whatever it said. Seems they did this new score just to knock us in the 800 club off our high horses. We learned to play their game, so now they create a new game with different rules. Aint that cheating?

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@sarge12 you crack me up I love it!!