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FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes


@CreditCuriosity wrote:

The major flaw i see with this score is they have no clue of income.. 


@CreditCuriosity: I do understand that argument around credit scoring in general. I just don't know how it would work in practice, because along with income they would have to know about liabilities. There sure are a lot of people making six-figures that live paycheck to paycheck.

 

Like you mentioned already, I am sure many of the lenders internal risk assessment systems will have information on us that tells them what they need to know without having to resort to this Resilience Index.

Message 571 of 1,094
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes


@Birdman7 wrote:

 

@Anonymous yeah I was looking for the thread on that so I could evaluate whether I should switch


No. Just no. lol

 

With 21 credit cards don't you have everything covered already?

Message 572 of 1,094
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes


@Anonymous wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

 

@Anonymous yeah I was looking for the thread on that so I could evaluate whether I should switch


No. Just no. lol

 

With 21 credit cards don't you have everything covered already?


This would just be a product change from freedom to flex

-Scoring wisdom: Credit Scoring Primer, Payment History, Amount of Debt, Length of History/New Credit, Mix/Disputes/Freezes/Searches, Mortgage Scores/Negative Reason Codes/V.9, Helpful Links,
Anonymous’s Reason Statements Thread,
iv's friendly statement to reason statement concordance,

ccquest’s Workbook to calculate metrics.
Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Revolver - 8,9; Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Account - 5/4/2.
Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.




(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 573 of 1,094
coreysw12
Valued Contributor

Re: FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes


@CreditCuriosity wrote:

The major flaw i see with this score is they have no clue of income.. 


Or stability in income, for that matter. For example, I've been employed at the same job for 18 years. I've been through (now) two recessions since I got hired and my annual income has only gone up through it all. Never had a gap in employment in my entire life since I was 16. Yet, the algorithm treats me that same as anyone who can't hold a steady job for more than 6 months or is currently unemployed.

 

Because of that, I don't see how this score could possibly be better than any bank's own internal metric, since at least the bank has your income and employment history from what you put on your app, which (to me) is an infinitely more important metric than basing it almost entirely on my loan to credit card ratio.

 

And, as we seem to have demonstrated in this thread, the stress score seems to accomplish almost the exact opposite of what it's intented for. People with strong credit profiles seem to almost universally have worse scores than people with thin and/or "dirty" profiles. So why in the world would any lender ever want to use this score?

    Total Loan Balance: $58k / $65k

    Total SL: $42.4k
Goal cards:



United 1K - 675,000 lifetime flight miles    |    Chase Status: 3/24
Message 574 of 1,094
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes


@coreysw12 wrote:

@CreditCuriosity wrote:

The major flaw i see with this score is they have no clue of income.. 


Or stability in income, for that matter. For example, I've been employed at the same job for 18 years. I've been through (now) two recessions since I got hired and my annual income has only gone up through it all. Never had a gap in employment in my entire life since I was 16. Yet, the algorithm treats me that same as anyone who can't hold a steady job for more than 6 months or is currently unemployed.

 

Because of that, I don't see how this score could possibly be better than any bank's own internal metric, since at least the bank has your income and employment history from what you put on your app, which (to me) is an infinitely more important metric than basing it almost entirely on my loan to credit card ratio.

 

And, as we seem to have demonstrated in this thread, the stress score seems to accomplish almost the exact opposite of what it's intented for. People with strong credit profiles seem to almost universally have worse scores than people with thin and/or "dirty" profiles. So why in the world would any lender ever want to use this score?


@coreysw12 very well said!

-Scoring wisdom: Credit Scoring Primer, Payment History, Amount of Debt, Length of History/New Credit, Mix/Disputes/Freezes/Searches, Mortgage Scores/Negative Reason Codes/V.9, Helpful Links,
Anonymous’s Reason Statements Thread,
iv's friendly statement to reason statement concordance,

ccquest’s Workbook to calculate metrics.
Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Revolver - 8,9; Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Account - 5/4/2.
Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.




(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 575 of 1,094
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes

EQ FICO Resilience Index

Leaderboard as of September 30, 2020

Breaking News

 

CreditCuriosity has taken The Golden Chalice from K-in-Boston !

 

Dogbert is still KEEPER of The Golden Sword! for having the highest/worst score ever - a 76 !

 

Lulah is still sole possessor of the Gold Key with a score of 37 !

 

Welcome @coreysw12 , @Face_Value , and @GApeachy to the board!

That makes 40 members who have shared their score!


  • FICO issued a press release about this score and it triggered a flurry of articles in the press.
  • The Washington Post published an article about this 'new score'.
  • Plenty more articles on Google here.
  • Many article authors are wondering if/when consumers will be able to obtain their score. (lol)
  • The first score was submitted to this thread on March 29, 2020.
  • New Podcast Interview: The Scores Vice President of FICO talks about the new FICO Resilience Index.

This Resilience Index score is included with a myFICO subscription. It will be shown on the dashboard.

 

And as always - lower rating (higher number) doesn't mean that person has a bad credit profile in any way.

This score is really sensitive to balance amounts and it doesn't matter if you have a 600 or 850.

 

RECORD HOLDER
& KEEPER OF
THE GOLDEN SWORD!

The Golden Sword

EQ FICO RESILIENCE INDEX

Dogbert

76

04-03-2020

 

MEMBER NAME
* denotes former award winner
see bottom of post

SCORES

RED
FLAGS

HIGH
SCORE

DATE
Click for Individual Profile Data

RESILIENT [1-44]

GOLD KEY WINNER

gold_key.png

Lulah

37

0

37

07-24-2020

JWD1980

40

0

40

07-26-2020

Throckmorton's Wife

40

?

40

05-07-2020

LaHossBoss*

43

0

41

08-18-2020

tacpoly

43

0

43

08-14-2020

MODERATE [45-59]

FireMedic1

45

2

45

06-05-2020

PicoFico

45

2

45

04-30-2020

EW800

46

2

46

05-01-2020

Thomas_Thumb

48

2

48

04-07-2020

Tonya-E

47

2

47

08-07-2020

Trudy

49

2

49

06-12-2020

sjt

51

2

47

08-17-2020

Chris865 [OP]

52

2

52

05-23-2020

angelwingz

53

2

53

04-09-2020

KLEXH25

53

2

53

07-26-2020

Credit4Growth

54

2

54

07-30-2020

CassieCard

55

2

53

09-13-2020

LaHossBoss SO

55

2

52

08-18-2020

Flyingifr

56

2

56

07-21-2020

kilroy8

56

?

56

06-11-2020

TMB_

56

2

56

06-01-2020

Face_Value

57

2

57

06-01-2020

sarge12

59

2

59

08-24-2020

SENSITIVE [60-69]

coreysw12

60

2

60

09-17-2020

CreditObsessedinFL

60

2

56

09-29-2020

joeyv1985

62

2

62

09-13-2020

NRB525

63

2

63

04-06-2020

Remedios

63

2

63

06-06-2020

KEEPER OF THE GOLDEN SWORD

The Golden Sword

Dogbert*

64

2

64

06-25-2020

OmarGB9

64

2

64

08-22-2020

Revelate

65

2

63

06-14-2020

RehabbingANDBlabbing

66

2

66

03-29-2020

Birdman7

67

2

60

09-29-2020

Brian_Earl_Spilner

68

2

61

09-07-2020

Dumbee

68

2

56

09-11-2020

jayk1

69

?

69

09-05-2020

VERY SENSITIVE [70-99]

Kenro*

72

?

72

05-03-2020

GApeachy

73

3

73

09-29-2020

"Customer of the Year"

Poulet Frit Kentucky

pfk_award.png

K-in-Boston*

73

3

72

09-04-2020

GOLDEN CHALICE WINNER

The Golden Chalice

CreditCuriosity

75

3

75

09-23-2020

 

* FORMER AWARD WINNERS *

MEMBER NAME

AWARD

TROPHY

FOR

DATE
Click for Individual Profile Data

Dogbert

GOLDEN CHALICE

golden_chalice.png

Lowest rating: 76

04-03-2020

JWD1980

GOLD KEY

Gold Key

Highest Rating: 40

07-26-2020

K-in-Boston

GOLDEN CHALICE

golden_chalice.png

Lowest rating: 73

09-04-2020

Kenro

GOLDEN CHALICE

The Golden Chalice

Lowest rating: 72

05-03-2020

Kenro

GOLDEN SWORD

The Golden Sword

Record Low Rating: 72

05-03-2020

LaHossBoss

GOLD KEY

Gold Key

Highest rating: 41

04-17-2020

Throckmorton's Wife

GOLD KEY

Gold Key

Highest Rating: 40

05-07-2020

 

All awards are from this game: Adventure (1980) (Atari 2600) Level 1 play through 

Message 576 of 1,094
GApeachy
Super Contributor

Re: FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes


@Birdman7 wrote:

@GApeachy wrote:

@Birdman7   The only utilization I have found on cr's are on Experian showing 23% total and <2% on cc's if I'm reading it right.  I don't see a utilization on MyEquifax.  Where else would I look?  On my LOC I'm like 48% util. if that helps.  

I just find it odd that Eq. lists it under Mortgage (which is incorrect, not a heloc) but shows my resilience score red flag as lacking loan. Idk.


@GApeachy no I actually meant had you tested it and seen which one the algorithm was treating it as. 


No, I never paid attention to the this score until I bought this last report. eta: How do you test?

"My Take Home Pay Don't Take Me Home"
Message 577 of 1,094
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes


@GApeachy wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

@GApeachy wrote:

@Birdman7   The only utilization I have found on cr's are on Experian showing 23% total and <2% on cc's if I'm reading it right.  I don't see a utilization on MyEquifax.  Where else would I look?  On my LOC I'm like 48% util. if that helps.  

I just find it odd that Eq. lists it under Mortgage (which is incorrect, not a heloc) but shows my resilience score red flag as lacking loan. Idk.


@GApeachy no I actually meant had you tested it and seen which one the algorithm was treating it as. 


No, I never paid attention to the this score until I bought this last report. eta: How do you test?


@GApeachy The test the LOC you would need to raise its utilization across known thresholds, either individual or enough for aggregate, to see if you get point loss at those thresholds; if so, it is being treated as a revolver. If not I would think it's being treated as a loan, unless you can cause aggregate installment utilization to cross a threshold to test. 

what is your aggregate installment utilization?

-Scoring wisdom: Credit Scoring Primer, Payment History, Amount of Debt, Length of History/New Credit, Mix/Disputes/Freezes/Searches, Mortgage Scores/Negative Reason Codes/V.9, Helpful Links,
Anonymous’s Reason Statements Thread,
iv's friendly statement to reason statement concordance,

ccquest’s Workbook to calculate metrics.
Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Revolver - 8,9; Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Account - 5/4/2.
Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.




(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 578 of 1,094
sarge12
Valued Contributor

Re: FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes


@Birdman7 wrote:

Yeah I’m a little late myself I’m up to 67. I think I’ve been hanging out with @sarge12 or something. Same two flags increased balances, I think. 

 

@Anonymous finally got around updating my scores as well. The increased number of revolvers with a balance cause some losses on a few. I switch scorecards to no new accounts November.


Fico pretends like this score matters, and I pretend like I actually care. In truth, if this score is used as a predictor of likely defaults, what exactly has fico 08 been claiming to be used for? It is really strange how those with high fico 08 scores seem to score badly on this new score. I think I might start a new index score to indicate the level the debtor really cares from 1-100 with low scores meaning the debtor cares less. I would do really well with that score, because the less these scores make any common sense, the less I care what they are. I will argue forever that the #1 factor in resilience of scores in a downturn is whether income is negatively affected. As far as that is concerned, my income increased due to the stimulus payments. It makes no sense at all that the same actions that help fico 08 scores used to predict defaults, would harm resilience to a downturn. It is also ridiculous to claim anything can predict resilience of a downturn due to a worldwide  pandemic. They can't use history for such predictions because a worldwide pandemic of such scale has not ever happened in the modern era. Fico is just guessing at best for these scores, and the full economic impact of the pandemic and riots will surely affect the economy for years to come. Many small businesses going under will never recover, and that is just a fact.

TU fico08=842 05/20/21
EX fico08=830 06/04/21
EQ fico09=835 06/01/21
EX fico09=824 05/05/21
EQ fico bankcard08=856 05/25/21
TU Fico Bankcard 08=881 05/23/21
EQ NG1 fico=802 04/17/21
EQ Resilience index score=58 03/09/21
Unknown score from EX=784 used by Cap1 07/10/20
Message 579 of 1,094
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes


@sarge12 wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

Yeah I’m a little late myself I’m up to 67. I think I’ve been hanging out with @sarge12 or something. Same two flags increased balances, I think. 

 

@Anonymous finally got around updating my scores as well. The increased number of revolvers with a balance cause some losses on a few. I switch scorecards to no new accounts November.


Fico pretends like this score matters, and I pretend like I actually care. In truth, if this score is used as a predictor of likely defaults, what exactly has fico 08 been claiming to be used for? It is really strange how those with high fico 08 scores seem to score badly on this new score. I think I might start a new index score to indicate the level the debtor really cares from 1-100 with low scores meaning the debtor cares less. I would do really well with that score, because the less these scores make any common sense, the less I care what they are. I will argue forever that the #1 factor in resilience of scores in a downturn is whether income is negatively affected. As far as that is concerned, my income increased due to the stimulus payments. It makes no sense at all that the same actions that help fico 08 scores used to predict defaults, would harm resilience to a downturn. It is also ridiculous to claim anything can predict resilience of a downturn due to a worldwide  pandemic. They can't use history for such predictions because a worldwide pandemic of such scale has not ever happened in the modern era. Fico is just guessing at best for these scores, and the full economic impact of the pandemic and riots will surely affect the economy for years to come. Many small businesses going under will never recover, and that is just a fact.


@sarge12 you know I agree. 

@Anonymous I just read what I wrote above and it sounded like I was saying that you finally updated my scores, but I was letting you know I finally updated my scores in my siggy so that you can check them out. I wrote that wrong. 

I didn't update in August. I apologize that sounded wrong, dictation left out the first word I,  I'm gonna go edit it.

-Scoring wisdom: Credit Scoring Primer, Payment History, Amount of Debt, Length of History/New Credit, Mix/Disputes/Freezes/Searches, Mortgage Scores/Negative Reason Codes/V.9, Helpful Links,
Anonymous’s Reason Statements Thread,
iv's friendly statement to reason statement concordance,

ccquest’s Workbook to calculate metrics.
Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Revolver - 8,9; Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Account - 5/4/2.
Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.




(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 580 of 1,094
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