Not sure where to turn to dispute an unproven collection item

[SolidSnake]

Basic info: I reside in NY. Had an account with AT&T which wasn't closed out properly back in 2007/2008 and I have been asking every party involved for proof of debt, but no one is has it any more.

I got this collection letter from a collection company for $2550 in 2010. I did not recognize the debt. The debt originated from AT&T. I did my usual research on the internet and sent them a letter asking for proof of debt. They never sent me any proof (or bills) but they did send me a letter saying something along the lines of "this bill is verified". There was a HAND WRITTEN note on there saying bills will be sent directly from AT&T. The collection account showed up on my credit report shortly after and I was denied credit from a creditor because of that. Later, the collection account disappeared.

I never received any bills from AT&T. Fast forward one year. I get another collection letter from a different company asking for the same amount. I did the same thing. Sent them a letter asking for proof (or details) - this time I worded it a little harsher. They never sent any reply. I waited for a few months but this was always in the back of my head. Eventually I called AT&T to see if I can get them to give any details. It turns out, it was an old account that I had with AT&T and it was never closed out properly. I stopped using the service when I moved to a new house. They had the wrong address on file (it was the address of the local mall). It is very likely that the account was fraudulently renewed and some high end phones were purchased at a subsidized price, and the culprit left me with $2550 bill. I can put this together because the same exact thing happened to my brother's AT&T account. I also noticed the wrong address shows up on my credit report (but thankfully there are no collection accounts).

I got some ideas from my fico forums. Recently, I contacted the police and tried to file a police report. That was a painful experience as the cop that showed up was an idiot of epic proportions. He kept going in circles about why I didn't call them earlier when I first got the letter, (ignoring the fact that I didn't know what was gong on either), and that he would need the DETAILS which I didn't have. He also said "just between me and you, if I open a file, it's not going any where". And he also said "Just bulls**t them and tell them you opened a police file". It took him almost an hour to come to the conclusion that he can't open a file based on collection letters alone, he would need original creditor's statement showing what I am being charged for.

So I went back to AT&T and had them open a fraud case, they said they will get back to me with the details in a few days. I got a letter today saying, surprise surprise, I owe the money, but there are no fu****g details. No statements, no proof, just a letter saying I owe them the money. I called them again asking if they have any details on file. They transferred me to the billing dept., who say they can only go as far back as Aug 2012 (the account was closed out in 2008).

They gave me the number of the collection company. According to them, the collection company had the details all along. But the collection company seems to be defunct - they have a prerecorded message saying:

"Due to circumstances beyond our control, we are unable to take your call at this time. When services have been restored, we will be happy to assist you. Please call back at a later time."

I don't have any negative accounts on my credit report but I fear another company will start the whole cycle all over again. I am considering hiring a lawyer to deal with this mess and sue either the collection company or AT&T. They haven't provided proof of purchase or verified the debt legally even when I explicitly asked for it in writing. If my understanding is correct, they have to provide some kind of proof with their claims of debt. They may have violated some laws when they failed to provide proof back in 2010 and still attempted to collect debt.

My credit report is clean but it's just that I don't want to be thinking about my credit report all the time, or keep sending letters to new companies asking for proof every few months. I am going to freeze my credit to prevent any future frauds, but I am not sure if it's worth it hiring a lawyer to deal with them. Any one here with experience on collection companies have any advice? I am not even sure what my options are any more other than waiting for another letter from them...


Can I make a complaint against a collection company that doesn't provide proof of debt? Is there a government body that can handle such cases? They are not attempting to collect it right now, buit I am afraid they (or another company) will send me more extortion letters later. The account keeps bouncing between AT&T and collection companies. I would not get peace of mind until I have a letter saying this account is settled, 

[Anonymous]

Per the FDCPA all a CA has to provide is who is currently collecting, the amount and if you ask, the name and address of the OC and an itemization of the debt.  They do not have to respond, ever, but cannot continue collection activity until they do.  That is if the DV is timely.

There are no requirements for them to send any kind of proof you owe the debt.

[SolidSnake]

Thanks for the reply. But I am not even asking for proof. What I need is itemization. They have not provided that. All they have done is said you owe us $2550. And they had the wrong address on file, whis is a red flag itself. If they provide me with an itemization, I can show it to the police and claim it wasn't me that did it. I don't even know why it's that amount. 

[Anonymous]

The only thing I can recommend at this point is filing a complaint with the FTC and the FCC.

The FTC would be for non-telephone services on your bill.  And the FCC because they regulate cell phone companies.

I would find the name and address of the CEO of AT&T and send him/her a letter also.

[SolidSnake]

You know my brother had something similar happen to him. I looked up the address of ATT headquarters and sent them a detailed letter with all the documents. It was handled promptly and the account was setttled. I think I might do that for this account as well. I don't know how efficient gov. authorities will be in this matter.  

[RobertEG]

Yes, requests for itemization can be somewhat contentious, as FDCPA 809(b) does not specifically list itemization of the debt as a statutory requirement.

The requirement to provide an itemization stems from case law precendent, which has routinely held that a consumer cannot properly detemine whether the asserted amount of the debt includes any amounts that are not authorized to debt collectors under FDCPA 808(1).

A debt collector not familiar with case law interpretation of FDCPA 809(b) might fight it.

It would be helpful if someone would file a complaint with the new CFPB, and get their opinion in writing as help to others facing the issue without having to review case law in your individual jurisdiction.  The CFPB recently issued a press release stating their increased eimphasis on review of debt collector practices, and may well step in with a general policy statement that could be relied upon in similar cases.

[TeeGee]

Well this is distressing if your statement is true.  A DV letter sample I obtained from this site states they DO have to prove that.  In fact, the DV Letter demands:

• Provide proof that Debt Collection • Signed credit application between myself and the original creditor
• Copies of all signed vouchers from the date account was opened until default
• Copies of all statements from the date account opened until default
• Proof of the statute of limitations in __________
• Proof of agreement that you were hired by the ____________ (“creditor” as defined by the FDCPA) or
• A copy of the contract wherein _______________. purchased the alleged debt.
• If the alleged debt was purchased, provide a copy of an agreement between _______________. and myself, signed by me, stating that I have a contractual responsibility to ________________. for the alleged debt
•Company Name is bonded/Licensed for debt collecting in the State of _______

I was counting on receiving these items from the CA in my issue posted under another thread about a debt over 5 yrs old.

[Anonymous]

The FDCPA spells out what is required of a CA to respond with and none of that is required. 

Your state laws may require some of them if they have their own version of the FDCPA.

[wHiTeSoL]

---

@TeeGee wrote:

Well this is distressing if your statement is true.  A DV letter sample I obtained from this site states they DO have to prove that.  In fact, the DV Letter demands:

• Provide proof that Debt Collection • Signed credit application between myself and the original creditor
• Copies of all signed vouchers from the date account was opened until default
• Copies of all statements from the date account opened until default
• Proof of the statute of limitations in __________
• Proof of agreement that you were hired by the ____________ (“creditor” as defined by the FDCPA) or
• A copy of the contract wherein _______________. purchased the alleged debt.
• If the alleged debt was purchased, provide a copy of an agreement between _______________. and myself, signed by me, stating that I have a contractual responsibility to ________________. for the alleged debt
•Company Name is bonded/Licensed for debt collecting in the State of _______

I was counting on receiving these items from the CA in my issue posted under another thread about a debt over 5 yrs old.

---

I am pretty sure none of that is required per FCRA, if that is a sample letter sometimes people add wish lists of documents they want. Robert would be able to clarify much better than I can

[Anonymous]

FCRA has nothing to do with DV letters.  That is strictly the FDCPA 809.