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Vantage 3.0 - what?

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Moderator Emeritus

Vantage 3.0 - what?

Two points on this:

 

1) Same changes to credit on both EQ and TU

2) TU has a 60D late on it, EQ has zero derogatories or deliquencies

 

Silliness.

 

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Message 1 of 12
11 REPLIES 11
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Community Leader
Senior Contributor

Re: Vantage 3.0 - what?

VS3.0 is off its meds. My CK update last Friday shows 5 cards with balance reductions, a card over 3 months of age, two accounts passing two years of age, three cards with CLIs that totaled $2550, and the removal of a collection. Every one of those things is a positive, and each is even marked as such in CK. The result was a score drop of 17 points. 

There should be nobody anywhere who is wondering why VS3.0 was never adopted by the lending industry...



Rose Gold NPSL | BCP | Delta Gold | Hilton Surpass | Hilton Honors | PenFed PCR | IT Cash | IT Chrome | GHSFCU Visa Plat | Quicksilver | Target | VS | Home Depot | Lowes | Sams MC | Firestone | Overstock | Kohl’s | 2017 Audi A6 Prestige S-Line





TCL $85,100| Agg. Util under 5%
Message 2 of 12
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Frequent Contributor

Re: Vantage 3.0 - what?


@ImTheDevil wrote:

VS3.0 is off its meds. My CK update last Friday shows 5 cards with balance reductions, a card over 3 months of age, two accounts passing two years of age, three cards with CLIs that totaled $2550, and the removal of a collection. Every one of those things is a positive, and each is even marked as such in CK. The result was a score drop of 17 points. 

There should be nobody anywhere who is wondering why VS3.0 was never adopted by the lending industry...


Well that is disheartening, In my experience I had 2 collections on my reports and when one fell off I got @10-15 points increase across the bureaus. I expected the same when the last one dropped off but my credit score remained the same across the bureaus-disheartening.

 

In researching this result may have been due to now having a clean file and moving to a new scorecard (moving from one of the 4 bad scorecards to one of the 8 good scorecards for clean files).

 

I also read that sometimes when a lot of positives happen at once and perhaps added with a negative or negatives being dropped it causes an instability in your credit score which is a less obvious issue involved in credit scoring. The credit scoring system being introduced to this instability may not immediately assess the positives immediately and may even lower your score by some points until stability is obtained again in a few billing cycles.

My score did go up after a few billing cycles but I have a lot going on and can not directly state the degree of impact the dropping of the last collection (new scorecard+stability reset) in relationship to the point increases but it seems plausible some positive effect was obtained.

Message 3 of 12
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Community Leader
Senior Contributor

Re: Vantage 3.0 - what?

I think you're correct in your reasoning behind your scores vis-a-vis your report changes. In the case of mine and @Revelate the illogical movements were because it's VantageScore, not FICO. My FICO score increased as a result of those changes. VS decreased.



Rose Gold NPSL | BCP | Delta Gold | Hilton Surpass | Hilton Honors | PenFed PCR | IT Cash | IT Chrome | GHSFCU Visa Plat | Quicksilver | Target | VS | Home Depot | Lowes | Sams MC | Firestone | Overstock | Kohl’s | 2017 Audi A6 Prestige S-Line





TCL $85,100| Agg. Util under 5%
Message 4 of 12
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Regular Contributor

Re: Vantage 3.0 - what?


@ImTheDevil wrote:

VS3.0 is off its meds. My CK update last Friday shows 5 cards with balance reductions, a card over 3 months of age, two accounts passing two years of age, three cards with CLIs that totaled $2550, and the removal of a collection. Every one of those things is a positive, and each is even marked as such in CK. The result was a score drop of 17 points. 

There should be nobody anywhere who is wondering why VS3.0 was never adopted by the lending industry...


When my last collection was removed, my V 3.0 dropped something like 70 points. WTAF?  

I have just recently (last 3-4 weeks) paid off about $8k in cc debt, paid 6 cards to $0 (still have some with balances), all but 3 (with BT's) now under 30%...etc.  Big improvements in util.  No other changes (general aging but nothing hitting any thresholds).  

V 3.0 went up 10 points.  V4.0 went down 40.  Really?  

I think burning sage, moon phases and voodoo dolls have more impact on vantage scores than anything else.  

Message 5 of 12
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Moderator Emeritus

Re: Vantage 3.0 - what?

I have yet to get access to VS 4.0 as a scoring model, but if's not better than the awkwardness that VS 3.0 when any rational analysis is done, I can't see it's making many inroads either.

 

I would be fine if they both moved down or both moved up, but 60D late + high (ish, 7500/25000 tradeline) balance is a positive and clean (other than CFA which is anyone's guess under Vantage) + same balance = negative.

 

I get scorecards from my time spent analyzing the FICO algorithm, and sometimes shifting between scorecards is an oddity, but under no terms should an increase in debt (beyond the stupid all zeros issue and I suppose credit mix when we're talking installment lines), specifically revolving utilization, improve scores especially by a non-trivial amount.

 

20 points is a mortgage tier, that is non-trivial.

 

I know people talk about FICO as a profitability analysis rather than a risk one, but Vantage just looks brazen on that front.

 




        
Message 6 of 12
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Frequent Contributor

Re: Vantage 3.0 - what?

V3.0 doesn't include my closed auto loan. So my CK scores are way off (I think it's 60pts+ different)

And a couple months back my EQ score jumped +28 for "no reason generated" and TU never changed until I got new TL's and both dropped.

Glad lenders use Fico otherwise I'd be up a creek



Goal: Mortgage/Chase Trifecta






Message 7 of 12
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Moderator Emeritus

Re: Vantage 3.0 - what?

VS 3 factors closed accounts they just don’t show in Credit Karma’s stats.

If the auto loan isn’t on that bureau that is a different issue heh.



        
Message 8 of 12
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Super Contributor

Re: Vantage 3.0 - what?

lusedtolurk I don’t believe there are any instabilities. The algorithm assigns a scorecard and runs through the mathematical formulas.

Scorecard reassignment can occur when you have derogatories dropped or under many other conditions. This can cause a score change which is unexpected, and which can appear as an instability.
For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:




Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 9 of 12
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Senior Contributor

Re: Vantage 3.0 - what?


@Birdman7 wrote:
lusedtolurk I don’t believe there are any instabilities. The algorithm assigns a scorecard and runs through the mathematical formulas.



Sounds too technical, I'm convinced Vantage 3 just has someone throwing darts on a wall to calculate your score.


Message 10 of 12
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