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Vantage Score - do they not have buckets?

Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Vantage Score - do they not have buckets?


@CaptainKangaroo wrote:

On the Vantage front, something mildly amusing. I signed up for a month of Transunion to more effectively stalk my account changes for the next month. From yesterday to today, my score dropped 2 points. What changed, I wondered? So I do a comparison report. NOTHING is different except my old charged off, settled TXU account is off it now. Nothing else changed. Seriously? A charge off dropping off can lower your Vantage score? I'm glad this score is basically useless, much like Equifax's proprietary score, on which my score was over 100 points lower than my FICO 8!


I don't know if it's basically useless when Chase underwrote my Freedom on it.  Granted that was a year into my rebuild so we're talking early 2013 and undoubtedly it's market penetration has shifted since then for better or for worse.

 

Vantage has some different criteria than FICO; my TU and EQ/EX on VS 3.0 appear to be in different buckets as I see markedly different behavior around inquiries.

 

I have a 30 day late (from around a year ago) on TU, and when I took an inquiry across all 3 bureaus in late April my VS 3.0 EQ/EX stayed around 785 moving 2-3 points, but my TU got smacked 73 points and there it's stayed.  Something in the confluence around inquiries (since the old lates, and old tax lien are identical, missing one installment loan on TU and therefore a month's less AAOA at slightly under 3 years on both) but it's a pretty clear indication that the Vantage buckets are alive and well, and it thinks I'm a risky bet there compared to my other two reports (go figure /shrug).

 

Incidently my TU FICO 8 score now is actually higher than it was before the 30 day late, and is within 10 points of where I was before I got the mortgage which was my highest FICO scores ever at that time. (730 -> 711 when the mortgage reported, installment utilization change presumably, 714 -> 674 when the late reported); yet another datapoint that Vantage != FICO; however, I wouldn't call it useless... I doubt FICO's domination will last forever TBH, and VS is a legit contender.




        
Message 11 of 16
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Vantage Score - do they not have buckets?

 

Scorecard segmentation for VS3 and Fico8

 

VS3 scorecards.jpg

 

Fico 8 Scorecards.jpg

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 12 of 16
CreditGuyInDixie
Super Contributor

Re: Vantage Score - do they not have buckets?

Hi TT.  Is there any clear evidence or documentation on how FICO uses those three factors to define the eight clean/mostly-clean scorecards?

      * Thickness of file

      * Age of oldest account

      * Recency of new account openings

 

I know you have observed before that 2 x 2 x 2 = 8, which suggests the possibility that each has a single breakpoint (e.g. thin vs. thick, young vs. old, some new accounts vs. none) and each scorecard being some combination of on-off switches, but that is still conjecture (2-cubed = 8 may just be coincidence).  Does anyone really know?

 

Also does anyone know how FICO defines "new" in this context?  Is it < 365 days old? < 2 years?

Message 13 of 16
Sheridan_Smith
Regular Contributor

Re: Vantage Score - do they not have buckets?

I can tell you from pesonal experience that there is more nuance to the Vantage bucketing system than is indicted by that simple chart.

Message 14 of 16
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Vantage Score - do they not have buckets?

VantageScore 3.0 has 13 scorecards - that is rather well documented. Buckets are used on the forum interchangeably with scorecards although that can be confusing. Both VantageScore and Fico utilize factors for scoring. These factors are weighed differently depending on which scorecard your profile is assigned. The factors are often grouped into bins for scoring. Some people may refer to these bins as buckets. The chart in the above post came from the below white paper.

 

https://www.vantagescore.com/images/resources/VantageScore3-0_WhitePaper.pdf

 

https://www.verticalrent.com/entry/verticalrent-announces-both-vantagescore-and-fico-with-ultimate-e...

 

TU scoring models.jpg

The below primary factor categories are made up of numerous scoring factors. Many of these have been discussed in other posts.

 

VS score factors.jpg

 

VS3 performance drivers.jpg

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 15 of 16
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Vantage Score - do they not have buckets?


@Sheridan_Smith wrote:

I can tell you from pesonal experience that there is more nuance to the Vantage bucketing system than is indicted by that simple chart.


Not sure that can be stated since there's nothing on the criteria which sorts people into the 4 full file categories, and then further into the subcategories.  For example based on my TU VS 3.0 I suspect I may have been in 4 different scorecards over the past year.

 

1) Before anything happened

2) When the 30 day late reported

3) When the mortgage reported

4) When I got an inquiry

 

This compared to my EQ / EX VS which only shifted once:

 

1) Before anything happened

2) When the mortgage reported

 

I sit in one of the higher scoring buckets apparently on EQ / EX, a full 100 point difference between that and TU (678 -> 786/779).  I suspect VS is even more nuanced than FICO 8 and earlier at least, but the chart is an accurate if vague representation of the segmentation of scorecards in VS as TT suggests.

 

And yes TT, I'm guilty as are many others of using buckets, scorecards, and bins interchangably: they are effectively synonymous. Smiley Happy




        
Message 16 of 16
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