Now I need a survey?????

[justrock]

I am buying a $160,000 house in Ulster County New York (Hudson Valley).  The closing costs, including upfront PMI etc, are running almost $10,000 and it's killing me.  Today my lawyer calls and says I need to have a survey done to the tune of $750.  I'm really close to throwing in the towel on this purchase.  Has anyone bought a home without having a survey done?  I know it's to protect me, but it's a corner property fenced on the remaining two sides.  I have no plans to expand the house.  I would really really like to hold onto this $750 if possible.

[Peter1142]

I doubt you will be able to close without a survey.

Closing costs in NY are insane. Mine were someodd $24,000 on a $240k purchase, in a county where taxes are prepaid. Part of the problem is the out of control property taxes... but there are other factors.

[StartingOver10]

A survey is important for more than just the boundaries and easements of your property.  It also ties in to your owners title coverage. If you don't get a current survey, then there will be survey exceptions for easements, setbacks and other things on your owners title policy. The lender will be protected without a survey  but you will not. Those exceptions are removed when you have a current survey.

You mention that you have fences, you very well could have an encroachment on your property and not know it. A survey will determine if there is one or not.

If you have other items on the property, well and/or septic for example, it will show those locations. If you order an elevation certificate, it will help with flood zone issues (may not be applicable in your area).

I would strongly suggest getting the survey for your protection

[justrock]

Thank you for the advice.  I guess I'll go ahead and order it.  I just wonder why the current owners don't have one when it's so important, they've only been there 8 years.

[coterotie]

I would also call several companies and try to negotiate a better rate for the survey.  I worked as a surveyor while in college and some survey jobs are easier than others and most surveyors know where it is easy to do one and where it is difficult.  If there have been any surveys done in the neighborhood recently, start with that company as they can tie to that survey and make the process much faster and easier.

As to why the previous owners didn't do one:  If the subdivision is lot and block, many banks don't require it.  If it is metes and bounds it is almost always a requirement.

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@justrock wrote:

Thank you for the advice.  I guess I'll go ahead and order it.  I just wonder why the current owners don't have one when it's so important, they've only been there 8 years.

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[StartingOver10]

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@coterotie wrote:

I would also call several companies and try to negotiate a better rate for the survey.  I worked as a surveyor while in college and some survey jobs are easier than others and most surveyors know where it is easy to do one and where it is difficult.  If there have been any surveys done in the neighborhood recently, start with that company as they can tie to that survey and make the process much faster and easier.

As to why the previous owners didn't do one:  If the subdivision is lot and block, many banks don't require it.  If it is metes and bounds it is almost always a requirement.

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@justrock wrote:

Thank you for the advice.  I guess I'll go ahead and order it.  I just wonder why the current owners don't have one when it's so important, they've only been there 8 years.

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It is a good idea to shop the rate like coterotie suggests.  Remember - since you are paying for it, you can choose the provider. Make sure they stake the corners too - many of the surveyors these days don't stake the corners anymore without specifically requesting it.

To answer your question about the previous owners, I have no idea why they specifically never had one done but I have found many buyers don't ask why a survey is important. They don't realize that those exceptions on the owners title policy remain if there is no current survey.

[ezdriver]

Survey's are mandatory as no lender will close on a purchase without it. Also, that the current homeowner has one is irrelevant as your lender would not accept that survey anyway. It may or may not affect your title insurance as well. All the best with your home purchase.

[coterotie]

See my responses in red:

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@ezdriver wrote:

Survey's are mandatory as no lender will close on a purchase without it. Not True, it is competely lender dependent/discretionary.  As a lender I closed hundreds of loans without a survey, was days from closing a personal VA loan last month without a survey and have had at least 5 home mortgage/HELOC's without a survey.  My current lender is requiring one for our new 1st mortgage HELOC, but would waive that requirement for a survey dated within 10 years.  Also, that the current homeowner has one is irrelevant as your lender would not accept that survey anyway. Again not completely true.  1)  Many lenders will accept a survey within X number of years. (see above eg.) So if the previous owner had one it could be used, again with lender discretion.  2)  If the current owner had a survey, then many companies will update the survey for a nominal charge so the OP could save 50% or more by using that same engineering company, was quoted $125 to update a current survey vs. $450 for new..  It may or may not affect your title insurance as well. This is true.   All the best with your home purchase.

[ezdriver]

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@coterotie wrote:

See my responses in red:

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@ezdriver wrote:

Survey's are mandatory as no lender will close on a purchase without it. Not True, it is competely lender dependent/discretionary.  As a lender I closed hundreds of loans without a survey, was days from closing a personal VA loan last month without a survey and have had at least 5 home mortgage/HELOC's without a survey.  My current lender is requiring one for our new 1st mortgage HELOC, but would waive that requirement for a survey dated within 10 years.  Also, that the current homeowner has one is irrelevant as your lender would not accept that survey anyway. Again not completely true.  1)  Many lenders will accept a survey within X number of years. (see above eg.) So if the previous owner had one it could be used, again with lender discretion.  2)  If the current owner had a survey, then many companies will update the survey for a nominal charge so the OP could save 50% or more by using that same engineering company, was quoted $125 to update a current survey vs. $450 for new..  It may or may not affect your title insurance as well. This is true.   All the best with your home purchase.

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Hmmm ... I stand corrected then! I know that the title insurance companies have required them in every deal that I have seen. Maybe you have exceptions to that rule too. I am a sales counselor for a builder. Our title company will issue a title policy or close a loan without a survey. No lender [to the best of my knowledge] will close a loan without title insurance. Ergo, a current survey is necessary to secure title insurance. Also, a survey that is not current could be problematic for homeowner and title company [assuming the title company issues a policy] if an encroachment exists since the last survey. My opinion is that any lender not ensuring that a current survey is done is not doing right by the mortgagee.

[justrock]

Thanks everyone for your advice and information.  This is what I've found out on my own-- the bank doesn't want a survey, the LO said she would be good with an updated metes and bounds description.  My attorney says I need it for my own protection.  If I don't get a survey done there will be "exclusions" in my title insurance.   I can use an updated one if the previous owners had one done 8 years ago when they bought the house.  My real estate agent is checking with the seller's agent.

I work for a law firm so I asked around.  One attorney, who bought her first house last year, said she had one done and found that the neighbor's shed was on her property.  She bought the house from an elderly woman and thinks the shed owners knew she wouldn't complain so they took advantage.  She's asking them to move it onto their own land.  

The property I am buying is bounded by roadway on two sides, and fence on the other two sides.  I am happy for the fence because i have a dog, and even if it was someone else's fence on my property I wouldn't move it.  Still, I think I'm going to play it safe and have the survey done if I can't update it.  I wouldn't give it a second thought if it was $300 or $400 dollars, but SEVEN HUDRED!!!

There goes the new sofa.