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Collection Deleted, FICO didn't budge??

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TheKid2
Frequent Contributor

Re: Collection Deleted, FICO didn't budge??


@Remedios wrote:

What is this "instability" you guys are referencing?

 

There is no such a thing. The moment there is a change to the report, scores are recalculated, as score is nothing but a numerical representation of credit report.

 

If this was OPs last derog, there would have been a change.

Because it isnt, there is still scoring penalty in place.

Mathematics is not unstable, if anything, the opposite is true. 


It's funny as I thought the same thing, but TU is super weird for me when it comes to the notifications of changes from my various monitoring accounts - I seem to get them in waves, almost like TU is doing them serially where there are multiple transactions on the same record for "the change". When I pull a 3B it's absolutely algo chews it and spits a number. But, when I am getting the passive notifications that there was a change, I sometimes don't see the full impact until the next day. Very hard to explain, but it could be related to how much work I'm doing on my credit file lately.

 

JOINED 4/2020


FICO 8 = 582, 620, 589 / Mortgage = 633, 526, 581


CURRENT PEAK *Thanks to the MF Community!


FICO 8 = 715, 711, 720 / Mortgage = 688, 696, 681

Message 11 of 34
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Collection Deleted, FICO didn't budge??

I had something similar. One fell off and my score jumped 22 points immediately. But when the 2nd came off, NADA! So don't be too focused on that, I'm glad the pfd worked for you and just focus now on your current credit. The score will come young grasshopper 😂. 

Message 12 of 34
rckstrscott
Valued Contributor

Re: Collection Deleted, FICO didn't budge??


@Remedios wrote:

What is this "instability" you guys are referencing?

 

There is no such a thing. The moment there is a change to the report, scores are recalculated, as score is nothing but a numerical representation of credit report.

 

If this was OPs last derog, there would have been a change.

Because it isnt, there is still scoring penalty in place.

Mathematics is not unstable, if anything, the opposite is true. 


Probably a poor choice of wording, @Remedios  - Instability as in when something is actually off the report vs when a CA says it will be vs when it updates on all three.

 

I wasn't referring to instaibility in the actual scoring algorithm or the credit report. I was talking about that actual situation being unstable. Not FICO specific. I know the whole "FICO has no memory" drill; been here a decade haha

 

-scott

Starting FICO Score: October 2010: TU 498 | EQ: 502
Current FICO Scores:: May 2022: TU: 784 | EQ: 770 | EX: 790
Message 13 of 34
FireMedic1
Community Leader
Mega Contributor

Re: Collection Deleted, FICO didn't budge??

 @Remedios   @Anonymous @PhinPhin @rckstrscott @Anonymous @TheKid2 If I dont know something and want to learn for future reference. I hunt it down to give accurate information. I dont wing it.

"When negative information is deleted from your credit report, you probably won't see an increase immediately. However, you almost certainly will see an improvement fairly quickly if deleting the negative information is the only change.

There are two things that influence credit scores when information is deleted from your credit history. The obvious one is that negative information is removed. That is the positive.

The less obvious issue is stability. Credit scores not only weigh the information in your credit report at a certain moment, they also consider your credit behavior over time. A stable account history showing consistent, positive behavior is important to credit scores."

https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/deleting-an-account-did-not-raise-the-credit-score/ 


Message 14 of 34
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Collection Deleted, FICO didn't budge??


@FireMedic1 wrote:

 @Remedios   @Anonymous @PhinPhin @rckstrscott @Anonymous @TheKid2 If I dont know something and want to learn for future reference. I hunt it down to give accurate information. I dont wing it.

"When negative information is deleted from your credit report, you probably won't see an increase immediately. However, you almost certainly will see an improvement fairly quickly if deleting the negative information is the only change.

There are two things that influence credit scores when information is deleted from your credit history. The obvious one is that negative information is removed. That is the positive.

The less obvious issue is stability. Credit scores not only weigh the information in your credit report at a certain moment, they also consider your credit behavior over time. A stable account history showing consistent, positive behavior is important to credit scores."

https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/deleting-an-account-did-not-raise-the-credit-score/ 


Thank you for the info! 

 

To be perfectly clear, I wasn't winging anything. I was giving first hand experience with having derogs removed while derogs remained.

 

Ibalso included that not only having the derog removed would be reason for the score change.

 

My FICO9 updated and actually went down after the removal of the derog. Hence, reflecting the "stabilty of your credit" portion of your info.

 

Thanks again!

Message 15 of 34
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Collection Deleted, FICO didn't budge??

I'm going to second what someone else said here. Mine was also purely from MY experience. I know a little bit but not a lot (hence why I love this forum). So if it wasn't helpful, please disregard my answer. 

Message 16 of 34
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Collection Deleted, FICO didn't budge??


@rckstrscott wrote:

@Remedios wrote:

What is this "instability" you guys are referencing?

 

There is no such a thing. The moment there is a change to the report, scores are recalculated, as score is nothing but a numerical representation of credit report.

 

If this was OPs last derog, there would have been a change.

Because it isnt, there is still scoring penalty in place.

Mathematics is not unstable, if anything, the opposite is true. 


Probably a poor choice of wording, @Remedios  - Instability as in when something is actually off the report vs when a CA says it will be vs when it updates on all three.

 

I wasn't referring to instaibility in the actual scoring algorithm or the credit report. I was talking about that actual situation being unstable. Not FICO specific. I know the whole "FICO has no memory" drill; been here a decade haha

 

-scott


To further show you were absolutely correct in regards to "instability". And that we were a bit off the mark, but not by much in saying that scoring increases happen *later* and are *not* immediate.

 

And so that Remedios is also aware that the scoring system cannot calculate the score change immediately until there is more stability in the credit profile, so, no, the score change is not immediate at the time of deletion of a derog.

 

From the exerpt that @FireMedic1 posted and probably the most important part about delayed scoring and the instability of the credit profile leading to often unexpected score changes:

 

"When negative information is deleted from your credit report, you probably won't see an increase immediately. However, you almost certainly will see an improvement fairly quickly if deleting the negative information is the only change.

 

There are two things that influence credit scores when information is deleted from your credit history. The obvious one is that negative information is removed. That is the positive.

 

The less obvious issue is stability. Credit scores not only weigh the information in your credit report at a certain moment, they also consider your credit behavior over time. A stable account history showing consistent, positive behavior is important to credit scores.

 

By deleting negative information, a degree of instability has been introduced that the credit scoring system cannot immediately account for as a positive change.

 

Initially, the deleted information and the instability cancel each other out, resulting in little or no change in your credit score. Sometimes there may even be a slight decrease in the score. But, after the next payment period or two, your credit history will appear stable again, and deletion of the negative information should result in a positive change to the credit score."

 

Thanks again @FireMedic1 for the enlightening article!

Message 17 of 34
TheKid2
Frequent Contributor

Re: Collection Deleted, FICO didn't budge??


@FireMedic1 wrote:

 @Remedios   @Anonymous @PhinPhin @rckstrscott @Anonymous @TheKid2 If I dont know something and want to learn for future reference. I hunt it down to give accurate information. I dont wing it.

"When negative information is deleted from your credit report, you probably won't see an increase immediately. However, you almost certainly will see an improvement fairly quickly if deleting the negative information is the only change.

There are two things that influence credit scores when information is deleted from your credit history. The obvious one is that negative information is removed. That is the positive.

The less obvious issue is stability. Credit scores not only weigh the information in your credit report at a certain moment, they also consider your credit behavior over time. A stable account history showing consistent, positive behavior is important to credit scores."

https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/deleting-an-account-did-not-raise-the-credit-score/ 


I kudoed your "instability" post because I feel like anecdotally that is something that I have experienced. I've been extremely active in clearing up my credit reports, so there have been tons of changes of the last 2 months. I have arguably made all positive changes, but didn't always see an immediate score change. I also understand that math is math, so it's definitely a grey area.

 

Seems EX actually addressed this very thing in your link.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

JOINED 4/2020


FICO 8 = 582, 620, 589 / Mortgage = 633, 526, 581


CURRENT PEAK *Thanks to the MF Community!


FICO 8 = 715, 711, 720 / Mortgage = 688, 696, 681

Message 18 of 34
rckstrscott
Valued Contributor

Re: Collection Deleted, FICO didn't budge??


@TheKid2 wrote:

@FireMedic1 wrote:

 @Remedios   @Anonymous @PhinPhin @rckstrscott @Anonymous @TheKid2 If I dont know something and want to learn for future reference. I hunt it down to give accurate information. I dont wing it.

"When negative information is deleted from your credit report, you probably won't see an increase immediately. However, you almost certainly will see an improvement fairly quickly if deleting the negative information is the only change.

There are two things that influence credit scores when information is deleted from your credit history. The obvious one is that negative information is removed. That is the positive.

The less obvious issue is stability. Credit scores not only weigh the information in your credit report at a certain moment, they also consider your credit behavior over time. A stable account history showing consistent, positive behavior is important to credit scores."

https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/deleting-an-account-did-not-raise-the-credit-score/ 


I kudoed your "instability" post because I feel like anecdotally that is something that I have experienced. I've been extremely active in clearing up my credit reports, so there have been tons of changes of the last 2 months. I have arguably made all positive changes, but didn't always see an immediate score change. I also understand that math is math, so it's definitely a grey area.

 

Seems EX actually addressed this very thing in your link.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 


I am a little hesitent, personally, from taking an article written by a CRA as the gospel when it comes to a credit score that the said CRA literally has NO say in how it performs from a statistical perspective. My instability comment was based in the fact that when there are unknown variables, there can be an appearance of instabilty.

 

The reality is the score itself is a snapshot and by definition is completely stable. How one percieves that, and how each CRA and score varies from one to another, and the TYPE of changes that can occur immediately before and after is what I was refering to as instablity.

 

I understand what both you and Firemedic are saying, and I do appreciate the share of that article, but that article doesn't really state any additional fact. It didn't source some KB article from FICO, it didn't source anything. It was just 'The Experian Team" - If it was "The FICO Team" it would have more value, in my eyes. At the end of that article I was fully expecting them to say "Now deleting information won't immediately fix your score, but Experian Credit Boost (tm) will!"

 

This is such a wonky and in the weeds discussion. I love it!

 

-scott

Starting FICO Score: October 2010: TU 498 | EQ: 502
Current FICO Scores:: May 2022: TU: 784 | EQ: 770 | EX: 790
Message 19 of 34
TheKid2
Frequent Contributor

Re: Collection Deleted, FICO didn't budge??


@rckstrscott wrote:


I am a little hesitent, personally, from taking an article written by a CRA as the gospel when it comes to a credit score that the said CRA literally has NO say in how it performs from a statistical perspective. My instability comment was based in the fact that when there are unknown variables, there can be an appearance of instabilty.

 

The reality is the score itself is a snapshot and by definition is completely stable. How one percieves that, and how each CRA and score varies from one to another, and the TYPE of changes that can occur immediately before and after is what I was refering to as instablity.

 

I understand what both you and Firemedic are saying, and I do appreciate the share of that article, but that article doesn't really state any additional fact. It didn't source some KB article from FICO, it didn't source anything. It was just 'The Experian Team" - If it was "The FICO Team" it would have more value, in my eyes.

 

This is such a wonky and in the weeds discussion. I love it!

 

-scott


I love these in the weeds discussions, too! I'm deep in the weeds with birdman7 over in the FICO scoring forum trying to understand how the algos score COs.

 

I have to agree with your assessment that this is a blog - but, there doesn't seem to be much official documentation to go on. Which leaves us in this type of discussion trying to determine scoring behaviours.

 

I think the FICO team came up very short on reason codes, which really are our only true indicator - like for instance, someone got a reason code about "credit stability". That certainly would help us on our quest for truth here.

 

JOINED 4/2020


FICO 8 = 582, 620, 589 / Mortgage = 633, 526, 581


CURRENT PEAK *Thanks to the MF Community!


FICO 8 = 715, 711, 720 / Mortgage = 688, 696, 681

Message 20 of 34
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