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DOFD/CO/SOL, 4 year discrepancy, & resurrection of cancelled debt

Regular Contributor

DOFD/CO/SOL, 4 year discrepancy, & resurrection of cancelled debt

Hi all & thank you for having such an informative, educational, and VERY helpful forum for people coming from all walks of "credit" Smiley Happy


A bit about myself: I am 35, permanently disabled, and only have SSDI as income.  I went from 6 figures to a monthly fixed income, then the infamous "demise" of my once perfect credit.  I know I'm not alone in this - we all have a story to tell as well as reasons for our particular situations, and just as the next person, I have been "paying the price" of living in poverty & without credit for a good 6-8 years.  


Believe me when I say I had the world and lost it quicker than the 14 years it took to gain it!  6 perfect mortgages, successful business owner, countless perfect CC's, countless perfect car notes, well - you all get the picture.  I could easily get anything I wanted, I was 100% responsible at all times, and never EVER abused the privilege of having credit.  Then the worst-case-scenario occurs: DISABLED FOR LIFE.  


Given the last check of all my CR's showed the super-majority of the "bad stuff" has dropped off, I decided it is time for me to do what I did when I was 18: Build - err Re-Build - my credit.  Easier said than done, I know, and it seems the harder I try or whenever I make a move, all I do is cause myself MORE grief as it relates to ONE single wonderful tradeline.  


Let's just say if Bank of America could care less about my last mortgage, i.e.. Never bothering to come after me for the $200K difference in the "short-sale" of my home back in the day (or deed-in-lieu - I can't remember truthfully other than it's not on any CR nor ANY judgment from any creditor for the matter), I have NO idea why, explained in further detail next, this thorn-in-my-side creditor keeps resurrecting what I thought to be a "done" deal.  


PLEASE BEAR WITH ME AND ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES IN MY ADVANCE for any/all unfamiliarity with the terminology, the manner in which I am trying to maintain chronology, and me attempting to provide as much detail as possible.  I hate to play the newbie card, but up until a year ago, learning about all this was never anything on my mind - paying as I agreed to was!  


As much hunting and reading over the last few days within these forums, I'm still finding myself at an impasse relating to DOFD versus CO, SOL (questionable given it occurred in 2003 in Indiana, moved to Michigan, now back in Indiana).  Adding insult to injury, the OC (and apparently a CA as well) have both come out of the woodwork & resurrected this matter - 4 years later after a cancellation of debt/discharge due to permanent & total disability.  However, under the provisions of said cancellation, any discharge of the loan had a mandatory 3-year "waiting period" as this was a PRIVATE, non-government-backed student loan, solely based on creditworthiness, and even after consulting with a BK attorney (all over that 2005 ordeal with the "rules changing" treating once UNSECURED PRIVATE student loans as follow-for-life), the BK attorney was at a total loss as well!!!  I don't even have enough debt to file BK - and since it is unsecured, as it originated in 2003, I am on SSDI & is protected, yet the CA seems to think they have all the power in the world to try & collect. ALL my Federal Loans were discharged through P&TD; the $60K+ in education loans are cancelled, all thought to be good right?  WRONG!    


In an effort to start rebuilding my credit, I began by pulling the CR's from all the CRA's, disputed what was inaccurate, got all of it either removed or it was about to fall off via natural "expiration", and applied for a CC.  Then the aforementioned began and has been going in full-force since then.  As stated above, between the OC/CA, and despite my multiple attempts at disputing these with the CRA's and the OC/CA (I sent the DV's, informed about the P&TD discharges, etc. Etc.), 4 - yes FOUR years later I now find out that this loan was never cancelled per the P&TD declaring that it was never eligible to begin with!  THIS is where the "starting to rebuild since all the bad has dropped off" turned RIGHT back into throwing me into a time-warp; in other words, I'm back in HORRIBLE status credit-wise since now, not 4 years ago, (they) began reporting the account as delinquent w/eventual CO.  OK - well - why are we now, FOUR years later, attacking me with all the arsenal in the world while simultaneously reporting inaccurately?  I have absolutely NO recourse as I had a house fire that destroyed everything (and I mean EVERYTHING), so I have not ONE shred of documentation other than a fax coversheet that listed the documents I sent back in 2009/2010, a contact name, etc. which was the same documentation that went to the Federal Loans.  


The CRA's are coming back as "verified as accurate".  I won't even attempt to contact the OC or the CA as all they demand is $$ while threatening to take everything I have if I don't, and without any documentation other than the coversheet and same documents sent to the Feds, the OC & CA still maintain their position they are 100% CORRECT.  All this being said, and after spending almost a year on this issue, I found this forum and have read read and read until I cannot read anymore in an effort to find out how I can go up against them, with the available documentation I do have, to show the DOFD/CO occurred over 4 years ago along with the P&TD cancellation of debt.  


This ONE matter is literally holding me hostage from obtaining ANY type of unsecured credit, it has also caused me to be denied 2 SECURED CC's as well (they come back stating the DTI ratio, high balance, recent CO, recent Delinq., no use of open trades, blah blah blah), and most importantly, it is causing me to be denied for a vehicle that I need desperately.  I won't even get into the house aspect as I might as well hang that up for the rest of my life; rebuilding SLOWLY is the goal but with all this nonsense above, I'm TOTALLY lost... 


Nevertheless, at this point in my novel I have wrote, I am praying that someone - anyone - begin having a conversation about all this and hopefully, at some point, be able to assist me in reaching a resolution with these folks.  The whole plan has ALWAYS been to start out slow, build and build and build, and get back into the "normal" range.  I am being realistic that I KNOW I will not have the best of the best, I have to start somewhere, but this setback is one HUGE setback for the reasons aforementioned.  


The only saving grace I DID have in this whole ordeal is that my SSDI is NOT TOUCHABLE - unless it was a certain type of debt (Taxes, Child Support, Etc.) - basically the same things that are non-dischargable in a bankruptcy - but obviously that is not the problem.  The problem is the NEW reporting of a HUGE $$ delinquent & CO'd tradeline.  


I am ALL EARS to anyone and everyone; I'll answer any questions, I'll help ALL I can, I'll do all I'm advised.  All I WILL say is one huge THANK YOU TO EVERYONE IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR HELP, ADVICE, AND EVEN JUST READING THIS.




All My Thanks in Advance Again Smiley HappySmiley Happy

BCE: 22.5K; BC-REW: 15K; QSSIG: 15K; CITI: 6K; FREE: 15.5K; DISC-IT: 17K; FCU: 20K; FCU-HELOC: 7.3/45K; AMZ-MC: 6.5K; KAY: 7.4K, LOWES VISA: 22K. FICOS: EX: 829; TU: 812, EQ: 822- 21 OCT 15. (NEVER TO FORGET PRE-MF: 635, 629, & 630 in Oct 2012)
Message 1 of 54
Epic Contributor

Re: DOFD/CO/SOL, 4 year discrepancy, & resurrection of cancelled debt

Hi and welcome to the forums.


Sorry about what is happening to you.


Is this a SL you are talking about?


Even with a PT&D discharge, does that mean these debts cannot be put on your credit report?

Message 2 of 54
Regular Contributor

Re: DOFD/CO/SOL, 4 year discrepancy, & resurrection of cancelled debt

Hey Guiness & thanks for the welcome & the VERY quick reply!  Also, thank you for the empathy - especially over the fact I'm 35 and will never EVER work a day in my life again.  It sucks BIG TIME and I really miss doing what I do best 15 hours a day Smiley HappySmiley Happy.  Making a once/month SSDI check go the long haul is a challenge even to this day. 


Without further delay and In order asked:


Q1:  Yes, It is an SL - unsecured (private loan, discussed this particular aspect w/BK atty who advised it's treated 'just as a credit card debt since it was pre-2005 BK rules').  I want to elaborate since you specifically asked this question since for this part, I DO have more info about the type of loan it is.  Since it is not backed by a Guarantee Agency, which is required for Federal Loans, and since I could not have even obtained this SL without EXCELLENT creditworthiness, they are treated no differently than any unsecured-type loan that you would walk into a bank and obtain based on your credit.  You don't have the "guarantee" by the FED for collateral ("Secured Loan").  Comparing to a Federal, that lender WOULD have that "guarantee" of getting their $$ - afterall, it is backed by a guarantee agency should it default.  Then it's up to the FEDS to come after the defaulted person in every which way imaginable.  To date, OC/CA haven't even attempted any of this as they know they won't prevail; sure they can TRY to - but about all they will get a month is less than $20.00.  I DID verify this with Social Security - and based on my income/expenses, about all they would allow is up to $20 a month.  The OC is throwing FAR more $$ out the window than they would ever collect.   


However, let's not forget - it is unconvertible, left untouched for the duration of the mandatory "wait period", and should have been discharged along with the rest; having been resold and resold, back at the OC, then resold and then into a CA, somehow it fell through the cracks.  It's a Two-Fold issue as you can tell. 


Q2 Part 1: Yes, they all can/should (and have in my case) been reported to the CRA's; the exception here is, unlike my FED loans, the unsecured SL does not show a Zero Balance, it does not show "Paid In Full/Discharged", and does not show a "Pays as agreed" for the duration.  At one time, payments were being made on all these and I never stopped making the payments until I got a deferment due to the filing of the P&TD paperwork (3 years).  When they were filed, they ALL began reporting "Deferred/Payment Unknown", the balances all stayed the same except for the subsidized SL's (that should have occurred too as law is interest accrues whether paying/deferred/in forbearance/etc. so that is not an error) whose balances rightfully rose according to the interest computations.  


Q2 Part 2: Whether this is harmful to me or not I honestly do not know.  You've raised a good point actually and ANOTHER question I did not even think of! Smiley HappySmiley HappySmiley HappySmiley HappySmiley HappySmiley Happy.  Well, actually I'm going to speculate here that it doesn't have much of an impact, if any, since there are no indications any of them were a derogatory trade at ANY given point during the life all of my SL's, show up in the "Potentially Negative" or the equivalent sections, nor one late-pay for the duration of the payment history.  If any of them were derogatory at some point in the past 7, then it would be safe to assume that at least one if not all of the CRA's would have placed them in one of those "bad" categories and penalized me for them.  Basically, that is all I am left with, most currently as installment loans, that are GOOD items and they remain on there for quite a LONG time from the 2028 "will drop off on" dates showing on the CR's!!!  Those, combined with my good resolving, mortgage, & other trades would certainly keep my scores going up and up versus taking a VERY much unanticipated plunge! 


With that bad tradeline, I'm going BACKWARDS instead of forwards over a severely complex, law-conflicting, report-timing-conflicting, and simply ludicrous SL & their 20 different lenders.  I do understand I have a heck of a complex issue here, and for that I certainly apologize again to everyone who responds, as I know there are multiple steps that need to be taken here which require quite a bit of thinking I imagine.  I feel horrible for talking about it even however I am at wits ends over this.  Further, I went to the BK attorney over this as I thought it was my only option.  Since he STRONGLY advised, along with another attorney in the same office since I went back twice LOLOL, I don't have enough debt to come close to justifying a bankruptcy hit for 10 years!  That would really really really cause a setback - not to mention if one of those huge bankruptcy places do not want to take $$ for this, that tells me something as well. 


Hope this in-depth info provides any more help.  Once again, Thank You VERY much for taking the time to respond regarding this!!!

BCE: 22.5K; BC-REW: 15K; QSSIG: 15K; CITI: 6K; FREE: 15.5K; DISC-IT: 17K; FCU: 20K; FCU-HELOC: 7.3/45K; AMZ-MC: 6.5K; KAY: 7.4K, LOWES VISA: 22K. FICOS: EX: 829; TU: 812, EQ: 822- 21 OCT 15. (NEVER TO FORGET PRE-MF: 635, 629, & 630 in Oct 2012)
Message 3 of 54
Epic Contributor

Re: DOFD/CO/SOL, 4 year discrepancy, & resurrection of cancelled debt

So, the TLs are now reporting deferred?  Will they always be deferred?


I just need to wrap my head around everything to give the best answer I can.

Message 4 of 54
Regular Contributor

Re: DOFD/CO/SOL, 4 year discrepancy, & resurrection of cancelled debt

Still, I'm trying to make this as painless as painless as possible for you & ANYONE else! I do appreciate it, rest assured. One day I hope to contribute too especially in this category. It has taken quite a bit of research I do know this much!!!

No - they all were previously up until August 2012 at which time all of them, with the exception of the unsecured, went into "Closed/Paid as Agreed/Discharged" status. Then in Jan of this year, the whole history and status changed on just the unsecured to "Charge Off as of Jan 2013" and all the history changed from "ok" or "pays as agreed" to "180 days past due as of Jan 2013......" And just fill in the months all the way back to June 2009. In May it is 150 and it goes backwards from there!!! And in the payment area, it just shows the balance on the rise each month since the June 2009 date. Every SL was - during the mandatory deferment period in just that deferment status and amounts never changed either. Once that 3 year period elapsed, as long and I am still P&TD'd, I will get the discharge. I found the true term and its called a conditional discharge which you get once your application for P&TD is approved. For me, this was 06/2009 and entitled 07/2012.

The combined unsecured SL and the bogus history - especially after coming back baffled as "verified as being accurate" - nooooo way I don't think so!!!! I've worked way too hard to get where I was, lost it, and waited all this time to start over and this sure isn't going to stand in the way!!! It's even tougher now, as we all know I'm sure, now compared to 10 years ago. Sigh.....

Thanks again Guiness. You're being a really kind person about all this and it's greatly appreciated.
BCE: 22.5K; BC-REW: 15K; QSSIG: 15K; CITI: 6K; FREE: 15.5K; DISC-IT: 17K; FCU: 20K; FCU-HELOC: 7.3/45K; AMZ-MC: 6.5K; KAY: 7.4K, LOWES VISA: 22K. FICOS: EX: 829; TU: 812, EQ: 822- 21 OCT 15. (NEVER TO FORGET PRE-MF: 635, 629, & 630 in Oct 2012)
Message 5 of 54
Epic Contributor

Re: DOFD/CO/SOL, 4 year discrepancy, & resurrection of cancelled debt

I would send them a direct dispute under FCRA 623(a)(8).  They have to investigate and update/delete/change and let you know what they did within 30 days.


You will need to be very specific and send in any documentation you have, cite any regulations you may know, etc.  Leave the bolded areas and fill in the blue area with what it asks.


“This is a Notice of Direct Dispute with you, under the provisions of FCRA §623(a)(8)(D), of the accuracy of information you have reported to my credit file.

“In compliance with FCRA §623(a)(8)(D), and enacting regulations published at  16 CFR § 660.4, this Notice of Direct dispute includes:

 “Identification of the specific information being disputed:

           (specify the account number, and the specific information that is disputed under that identifying account)

“Basis for the dispute:

            (how the reporting was inaccurate;  was any reporting in violation of any statutory or regulatory provisions?  account or express agreements?  CRA reporting gudelines? Account not yours? etc.)

Supporting documentation:

            (all documents that support your dispute; it is recommened to also include,as part of your documentation, at least a copy of the portion only of your recent credit report showing their reporting of the disputed information was actually reported to your credit flle.  The implementing rule suggests a  showing that it appeared in your credit report)

Message 6 of 54
Moderator Emeritus

Re: DOFD/CO/SOL, 4 year discrepancy, & resurrection of cancelled debt

Hello nma851 and welcome to the forums.  First off let me say that although I'm sorry to hear about your situation, I must applaud you for the way you are handling the situation and trying to improve your self.


Did quite a bit of reading with a limited amount of sleep but your situation caught my attention.   So I'm just going to ask a few questions so that I can fully understand the problem you are facing.


You had student loans "private loans", not fedrally backed that went in default.  "Sorry I'm not quite savvy on SLs, but I'll try to help as best I can."  You've gone on total disability, with no other income currently.   The OC and the CA seem to be passing this debt around and it seems to me like there's some re-aging on the actual loan.  You will need to do as much research as you can as to the origination of the loan dates and the date that you went insolvent on those.


I will be following your posts and trying to throw in some help when I can.  It's a good thing you've got guiness looking over this, she's a wealth of information.  Wishing you the best of luck.   Shogun

Starting Score: 504
July 2013 score:
EQ FICO 819, TU08 778, EX "806 lender pull 07/26/2013
Goal Score: All Scores 760+, Newest goal 800+
Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge

Current scores after adding $81K in CLs and 2 new cars since July 2013
EQ:809 TU 777 EX 790 Now it's just garden time!

June 2017 update: All scores over 820, just pure gardening now.
Message 7 of 54
Regular Contributor

Re: DOFD/CO/SOL, 4 year discrepancy, & resurrection of cancelled debt

Guiness I can't say nor show how much I appreciate this.  The manner in which you've taken "ownership" of this problem has me in awe Smiley Happy.  For a complete stranger to provide this much of her time, this speaks volumes about yourself.  You certainly have a VAST array of knowledge & I am beyond words over your plethora of knowledge.  Heck I would GLADLY pay you for your time as well as you more than earn/deserve it!! 


This is truly a very different experience being on this side of the fence.  The crazy thing as well?  I worked in Real Estate & mortgage industry and have quite a bit of knowledge relating to lending rules, however I do NOT, as you can tell, have one shred of knowledge when it comes to "Post-Closing/Origination" or unsecured lending!  I do hope to become an active member relatively soon & eventually helping others; it's the least I can do and why these forums are here to begin with.  Since I'm disabled, I have nothing better to do than learn and research - and what I found has COMPLETELY thrown me for a loop as to all the shady practices out there, how many people truly have no idea about THEIR rights, and most importantly, what to do and WHEN.  Timing is everything here; Lesson #1!  Anyway, before I go on a rambling tangent again - I'm just so impressed and grateful as I am NOT used to people helping me in a time of need!


With all I have learned and continue to learn, my goal is to become as educated as possible in the SL area and the Social Security area as I see MANY people are in this boat.  By the time all is said & done, and given there are MANY here that know what they are doing, present parties included (KUDOS AGAIN GUINESS),  I was so surprised to see just how many people do not realize their Social Security is EXEMPT from just about everything except "government debt" for lack of better words - and these CA's prey upon that ignorance of the law, forcing one's hand, & the next we know, they've entered into an agreement/paid a dime causing re-starting of the clock.  


Once I became disabled, and once I learned of the exemptions, you wouldn't believe how ALL of them backed off & ended the madness - even the $200K mortgage - since it's uncollectible against Social Security.  This certainly aided in the other debts & again, people just simply do not know their EXEMPT - regardless of what kind of SS income they have.


I believe SHOGUN touched on this and I am going to reply to that post after you Smiley Happy.  You're truly a blessing from above - no questions asked!!


Back to business:  Is the Direct Dispute you reference the same as the original DV I have already done?  


Background If so: or if similar, I DID do a DV back when the first phone call came as at that time, I had NO documentation from these folks who called, they hunted me down & somehow got my phone number.  I advised, during that call, that until I see something in writing I won't do a thing - they demanded payment immediately of $7K (LOLOL), which would satisfy that as PIF, and if I didn't have it, I could enter into an agreement for $1,200 - discounted from $2K (LOL again), and then pay $535/month.  RIGHT after that call I sent a DV with a laundry list of items requested - however, without being able to "attach" the actual letter that I found after a week of research back in November, I could copy/paste the actual verbiage used - maybe this will help you see where I am at currently in the process?  Please do not be upset for me wasting your space/time it is not the intent:


"... pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (b) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.


This is NOT a request for "verification" or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section as well as to ensure I have not had my rights violated under the Fair Credit Reporting Act & Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.  I respectfully request that your office provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.


Please provide me with the following:

1)     What the money you say I owe is for;

2)     Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;

3)     Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;

4)     Provide verification or a copy of any judgment, if applicable;

5)     Identify the Original Creditor along with all documentation relating to the terms, conditions, and contractual obligations with the Original Creditor;

6)     Prove that the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account;

7)     Prove you are licensed to collect in my state;

8)     Provide me with your license numbers & Registered Agent;


If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.

Also during this validation period, if any action is taken which could be considered detrimental to any of my credit reports, I will consult with my legal counsel. This includes any information to a credit reporting repository that could be inaccurate or invalidated or verifying an account as accurate when in fact there is no provided proof that it is.


If your offices fail to respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of your receipt, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately.


I further request, in writing, that you cease & desist any & all telephone contact by your offices to me, my home, and any/all other persons or acquaintances. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls or correspondence sent to any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter.


This is an attempt to correct your records; any information obtained shall be used for that purpose."



I did not, however, use the language nor cite specific Law as you (are specifying).  You are citing VERY specific areas of the FDCPA - which is A) Impressive, B) Necessary to put the heat on under the correct SS of the FDCPA, and C) I suppose it won't hurt at all to do this again given the only item I received back was the original loan docs - which were not the full docs - and did not include ANY terms/conditions.  Sallie Mae denies being involved at this stage and they are the OC - which I knew - and is also showing in the Loan Docs GC Services sent back.  Literally, despite the above copy/paste of the November letter (yes, it was signed for BTW - sent via UPS overnight with sig required), they only returned the original loan docs.  


Pertinent to Indiana, since that is the State of Origination on the loan docs (although I was back living in Michigan (6-year SOL) during that time due to my grandmother and her end-of life), the loan docs have my Indiana address on it.  The SOL for Indiana (10 years) and it is unclear when the true DOFD occurred - Sallie Mae doesn't even know!  It is my *best guess* that is should fall within the late 2004/early 2005 despite the reporting to the contrary.  Given Indiana is where I moved back to once she passed away (November 2005), I am going to assume Indiana has governing law.  It's complex, yes, and while advantageous *IF* I were able to use Michigan's SOL's, I could, theoretically, go up against them as beyond the SOL, too bad so sad.  I cannot remember when I changed my legal address however so I'm just going to stick with Indiana - particularly if I can prove DOFD and subsequent CO occurred in 2005 at the LATEST.  AFterall, this coincides with every single other trade going delinquent/CO'd - but then I'm right back with that additional hurdle of how the loan is being treated - i.e.. "Unsecured Loans used for ANY educational purpose are now treated the same as Federally Backed Student Loans".  Still though, I cannot for the life of me see two separate attorneys declare the same thing: It is Unsecured, not guaranteed, no collateral, etc.  


My Social Security payments are made through an Authorized Representative as well.  SSA mandated this, and per the SSA rules, the Auth Rep has to "authorize" any/all payments from my SSDI.  They've (the CA) has already violated that also by forcing my hand without the consent of the Auth Rep.  Once HE found out, he went ballistic & we both contacted the CA, advised them that (I) have no legal standing to enter into nor pay monies without the Auth Rep consent, he did NOT consent, and the CA went on to strong-arm again alleging that the SSA was false.  Since they recorded the call, we stated in a subsequent call, in a last-ditch effort to advise them that they have no legal standing to collect against my SSDI - and once we stated WE are recording the call, they refused any further conversation and disconnected.  SO they call and record yet I can't record?  OK fine - we'll bring out the big guns, I sent the DV letter, sent the C&D letter, and all that has occurred since that time was all we have discussed thus far while getting a bill, monthly, asking for $0.00 (yes, ZEROS) with a balance jumping by hundreds a month.  I have likely caused more grief than I would have by possibly "acknowledging" the debt, restarting my own clock, and if that ends up being the case here, my defense would be I never had authority to enter into an agreement to begin with per the SSA rules.  Again, I TRULY APOLOGIZE that I am making this harder - I just want every shred of detail out here for you/anyone else to have a FULL PICTURE of this nightmare. 


Now I hate to sound like a skipping DVD, but there is this lingering matter of the P&TD along with ALL of the other SL's that ARE "Guaranteed".  I cannot see it being a coincidence that this OC/CA waited until that discharge to start the collection attempts.  Out of 14 SL's, all but 3 are Sallie Mae, the unsecured included, which easily shows Sallie discharged the FED-backed ones yet refuse on the unsecured.  As it stands, there is not ONE remedy available to ANY consumer with an unsecured loan that was used for educational purposes - at least that is the super-super-majority of opinions I have found during researching the matter.  Let's say I filed BK - no remedy there as it's non-dischargeable, no P&TD as it's not a FED-backed loan, and no ability to consolidate it through an Educational Consolidation loan.  Something does not add up there one bit - we don't have debtors prisons however this type of loan is basically a debt NO ONE could get rid of due to a lack of remedy?  Let us not forget that my particular SL was in 2003 - PRIOR to the change in rules - so even if it was determined to be factual, what is the basis for A) Obtaining a judgment against me, B) Garnishing SSDI, and/or C) Garnishing bank accounts?  The bank is on notice over this matter as well - and since my SSDI is deposited through them, they know it is EXEMPT income, they will not honor any garnishment order averring "Only Exempt Income exists in this account".  NO funds are ever co-mingled in this account either - and the Auth Rep and myself ensure there is a paper trail everywhere as it relates to my solely SSDI income/expenses since that has to be reported to SSA every year as well.  


Nevertheless, as it stands right now, I will allow all the time in the world for you to read and digest this.  I again cannot state enough how much I appreciate what you are doing for me, for others in this forum, and for having the heart to tackle the complexity of this nightmare.  I have no problem providing further docs, if you want them, and answering any questions here or privately, if need be. 


Respectively Yours Genius Guiness!!!!  I again apologize until I'm blue in the face for hijacking all your time & knowledge.  It WILL be returned to you some way, some how I PROMISE you that - and I do not use the word "Promise" lightly - EVER! Smiley Happy Smiley Happy


BCE: 22.5K; BC-REW: 15K; QSSIG: 15K; CITI: 6K; FREE: 15.5K; DISC-IT: 17K; FCU: 20K; FCU-HELOC: 7.3/45K; AMZ-MC: 6.5K; KAY: 7.4K, LOWES VISA: 22K. FICOS: EX: 829; TU: 812, EQ: 822- 21 OCT 15. (NEVER TO FORGET PRE-MF: 635, 629, & 630 in Oct 2012)
Message 8 of 54
Regular Contributor

Re: DOFD/CO/SOL, 4 year discrepancy, & resurrection of cancelled debt

Shogun - Thank you as well for the welcome and your kindness!!!  I feel HORRIBLE that you had no sleep yet you still took time to go through this - that speaks volumes about yourself as well.  I am NOT used to people helping me; I've always been the "helper".  However I remain proactive, I remain confident, and I remain PATIENT in ensuring I get back on track.  It WILL happen.  I know in 5 years from now, we can look back on all this and say "Here is another success story courtesy of the wonderful people involved in this community forum".  My hat is off to you Smiley Happy  


No one EVER likely thinks they will have their life turned around by a disability, particularly at my age (I'm 35M, all I want is my life back - or at least a shred of it based on my current income).  I know it is unrealistic to ever contemplate having what I had in the past, but I was responsible once and I will be responsible again.  It's not like I went on a huge "spree" and blew up my credit; a life-changing event did - and if you look at all the trades on my CR's Pre-2006, you'd instantly say "Yeah give it to him - no questions asked".  NEVER did I go above 50% limits, NEVER did I miss a payment, and NEVER did I bite off more than I could chew.  If anything, I operated on my grandmother's words: "If you don't have cash-money, save up as interest will make you pay for that 3 times over if not more".  How true those words are - and my intentions, once all is said and done on this particular matter of mine or sooner if possible, I sure as heck want to jump into being on the "helpful" side within this forum.  I definitely do not claim to be an expert by ANY means, but with all of the others on here, it appears there is a great "pool" of knowledge across the boards that, with working together, we CAN and WILL find the answer(s). 


Life happens - I've paid my "dues" (7+ years of nothing), and I will NOT let this current nonsense stand in my way of re-building.  We all have had to do it - we were all once 18 - and we all need SOME form of credit nowadays to do just about anything.  What disturbs me the most was, given being in the Real Estate game, how all those lenders created such a nightmare for the "American Dream" and 3-5 years later, destroyed that dream for many.  Combine that with all that has happened with our economy, unemployment, et. al., I guarantee those who were not impacted still felt it in one way or another.  The ONE thing that I will NEVER EVER feel for? IRRESPONSIBLE USE OF CREDIT!  All that does is hurt everyone eventually via higher APR's etc etc.  I always told my clients that had high balances, E.G., that they're literally putting their "American Dream" on the line if they take out this HELOC and DO NOT CUT UP THOSE CARDS .  I'm sure you know MUCH more with your experience and expertise but the one thing I saw so often were people being penalized, via higher APR's, due to the availability of credit, number of accounts, high balances, and eventual tapping into that ONE asset you don't touch unless it's an absolute must due to their use, or in many cases "misuse" of these accounts.  Just because you have a high CL or a CLI every 3 months does NOT mean you need to accept and/or use it.  Being responsible means looking at your income, your expenses, and how QUICKLY you can pay off those balances if not immediately as interest is the enemy!  The other thing I cannot STAND is if a problem DOES occur, we all must face it somehow - ignoring the issue(s) will NOT make them go away miraculously.  I'm sure you get my drift/points so I won't waste more time - particularly knowing you did not have much sleep and I somehow got your attention with my wonderful nightmare!


Yes, I'm preaching to the choir here - and absolutely NO OFFENSE INTENDED!!!  I pledge my knowledge and my time, since I have NOTHING better to do given being stuck sitting/laying all day everyday, and this is definitely a forum in which I know I can be of help to those who need "basic-to-mid" level help, concentrating on Real Estate type transactions.  If only I could "reach out" and catch the "younger folk" and get my story out there - they would see just how fast their lives WILL go from "having the world" to "having nothing at all".  We all have a story, we all have situations, but it is how we LEARN from them is the key to success.  So I am starting at the bottom again - that is OK - I did it once so I'll do it again Smiley Happy Smiley Happy.  The only difference?  I do not have 6 figures to play with anymore and that is OK too.  I'll be back where I was, with CLI's that are realistic for my "new" income, and the rest will be ancient history.  We cannot give up and I do not want to see another person just "give up" without exhausting every option available to him/her. 


Now as to your questions, since I don't know how to be short-winded:


I only had ONE unsecured, credit-only-based, no-collateral, no guarantee agency backed SL through Sallie Mae.  The rest of my SL's were FED-backed.  You are correct that I am totally disabled, Social Security disability income only.  NONE of the SL's ever defaulted - without going into detail why I kept those PAA until I got the P&TD filed, every SL, including the UNSECURED one, never ever defaulted.  The FEDS actually initiated this process once I contacted them, after my SSA approval, in order to try and get a deferment for a while just to figure out my new budget.  The FEDS said since I'm disabled, I can file for and will likely be approved for, a Permanent and Total Disability Discharge of the loans.  I filled out the app, they sent the doctors the certifications, and then I received a "Conditional Discharge" which makes the person wait 3 years as if during that time, the person is found to no longer be disabled (i.e.. Temporary disability - not uncommon), the "Actual Discharge" would not occur.  Even if that happened, going into an ICR plan would easily bring down those minimum SL payments, even consolidation loans will qualify for such.  The options are ENDLESS for the FED-backed loans; it's these horrific unsecured/private/we got ya loans that lack ALL the benefits of the Federally backed SL's. 


As to this re-aging/resurrection, I concur that this has occurred somehow.  Without repeating what I've already said to Guiness, as much research on this SL itself as well as the rules/laws/etc., for the LIFE of me it just makes no sense how the loan was never eligible, why they "hid behind the scenes", and why Sallie Mae hid this unsecured loan the entire time I was in the Conditional period.  After all, they KNEW about it - they held ALL the other SL's that had the FEDS backing them - so they can't play that card period.  I also concur it's been passed around and around - and that might be why this resurrected when it did - as Sallie decided, once the actual P&TD discharge was given, they knew I was "fair game" and time to draw blood out of a turnip.  I don't think so - but my disadvantage is getting the docs from "someone" regarding the P&TD as due to the house fire, I do not have the original docs relating to the P&TD.  This gives THEM the advantage as if I ever end up in a court, I have VERY little, if any, documentation other than a fax coversheet and the Physician Statements.  While the coversheet lists an actual HUMAN at Sallie Mae, he no longer works for Sallie!  Whatever happened to this loan is beyond me - and I cannot even go to the individual that I was working with at Sallie to try and obtain any/all information.  It would be in Sallie's best interest to withhold it or it be "lost/never received" as it supports their position completely.  


However, the complexity of the situation warrants such a massive investigation in order to ascertain when, where, how, and why this unsecured SL fell through the cracks, not to mention the plastering of CURRENT & PAST negative reporting all over the CR's.  Whenever I disputed it, I wouldn't be surprised one bit if I am the cause of the re-reporting of inaccurate information.  Should it be found that this SL was truly never eligible for the P&TD, then it is completely inaccurate to make it a CO as of January - at most, they would have to CO as of the filing of the P&TD or in my opinion much much earlier since, as it stands time-frame wise, the deferrments have basically been "voided" from 2007 ongoing, thus making this SL appear to have defaulted, come back, then default again, come back, and default again.  The impact on the scores is AWFUL Shogun - as I inched my way into the 600's and once the FINAL bad "tick mark" fell off, my plan of rebuilding was to begin and then WHAM - slapped with a HUGE "bad tick" stopping any/all ability to obtain a CC to start some good, current/recent, and  ongoing reporting.  


Had this NOT occurred, between the OLD trades that were all PAA and the new ones (Secured CC, etc.), I would have been well on my way to a clean, fresh, and RESPONSIBLE handling of my credit.  Now?  Does not appear I'm at all going to get this anytime soon - at least not until this is all cleared up.  I have seen the horror stories out there about Sallie, I have PERSONALLY seen what they did to my roommate, and they are far from realistic in their so-called "Help".  


I'm more than willing and happy to provide anything you may request & in the interim, Guiness has given me some homework to do.  There's a start and for all I know this may be the push that solves it (hey one has to remain hopeful right?) without having to get the courts involved.  It may be more harm than good but at this point, I have NOTHING to lose due to the situation and its inaccuracies.  It's far from a quick-fix, I have to be realistic about that while remaining proactive in harassing THEM to cure these deficiencies.  In the interim, all I can do is keep the pressure on and wait while preparing for a possible battle.  


Hope you get some sleep and again, I TRULY appreciate your time and effort in responding to this.  I'll need all the advice I can to digest and see where I go from there.  You try to have yourself a good day/night, whichever it may be for you, and again I most certainly appreciate you Smiley Happy


Take care,


BCE: 22.5K; BC-REW: 15K; QSSIG: 15K; CITI: 6K; FREE: 15.5K; DISC-IT: 17K; FCU: 20K; FCU-HELOC: 7.3/45K; AMZ-MC: 6.5K; KAY: 7.4K, LOWES VISA: 22K. FICOS: EX: 829; TU: 812, EQ: 822- 21 OCT 15. (NEVER TO FORGET PRE-MF: 635, 629, & 630 in Oct 2012)
Message 9 of 54
Epic Contributor

Re: DOFD/CO/SOL, 4 year discrepancy, & resurrection of cancelled debt

No, this is not a DV letter at all.  You are directly disputing with the furnisher of the information due to inaccuracies in their reporting.


If they are both reporting, I would first send it to the OC as the CA gets their information from them. The OC has to comply or they will be in violation of the FCRA.  If they do not comply, or do not notify you of their results, your option for them would be a civil suit.  Whereas, with a CA, there would be other remedies, such as filing complaints with the FTC and the BBB.


If you do send the direct dispute to the CA, there is another blurb you should put in there about it not being a request for validation. 


On another note, knowing the DoFD is very important.  That date says when an item will be excluded from your CR.  SOL on the other hand is the time limit a creditor has to sue you according to your states laws.  Being that you have already filed a PT&A discharge one would think they would not be that stupid but, you never can tell.


DV letters are only for 3rd party collections agencies and if you sent it to the OC it was probably sent to the trash as they do not have to respond.


Don't worry about the length of your posts, you have to say what is needed to get the point across.


Anyone on this forum would be more than happy to help you with advice.  That's why we exist.


If you have any more questions or concerns, feel free to ask.



Message 10 of 54