First off, long time reader first time poster. These boards literally changed my life.
Brief background - I've been on a rebuild for about a year now. I wasn't in the dumpster when I started but definitely in critical condition. My credit health has been always been on a roller coaster because I just didn't care about it. And I didn't care about it because I didn't understand it! Now, I'm obsessed. THANK YOU.
So while riding on the brand new cutting edge IDGAF rollercoaster at the world famous CreditDoofus amusement park, I cosigned an auto loan for my brother. Without spewing the tragic story... hard times, blah blah blah, lost income blah blah blah, default on auto loan and truck eventually repossessed.
It was repo'd March 2017 even though they list DoFD as October 2017. I sent a DV letter last month requesting the following:
1. Any contract or agreement, bearing the signature(s) of the debtor(s), wherein the debtor agreed to pay the original creditor, including terms and conditions, explanation of the consideration and signatures by all parties to the contract or agreement;
2. A payment ledger for the above referenced account showing all payments made to the account, the date they were made and the resulting balance;
3. If the property that is the subject of this debt was sold, please provide all documentation relating to that sale including who purchased the property, the date of sale, the amount the property sold for and the condition of the property at the time of sale;
They responded with a single paragraph letter saying after conducting a reasonable investigation... see attached retail installment agreement.
But they sent me someone else's contract. Some gal in CA for a BMW X3. So they didn't answer any of my requests and sent me a random contract.
Is this enough to move for a removal through the CRAs? I'm thinking to dispute it as "not mine" and provide the corr. and response. Any input is greatly appreciated
Brief background - I've been on a rebuild for about a year now. I wasn't in the dumpster when I started but definitely in critical condition. My credit health has been always been on a roller coaster because I just didn't care about it. And I didn't care about it because I didn't understand it! Now, I'm obsessed. THANK YOU.
So while riding on the brand new cutting edge IDGAF rollercoaster at the world famous CreditDoofus amusement park, I cosigned an auto loan for my brother. Without spewing the tragic story... hard times, blah blah blah, lost income blah blah blah, default on auto loan and truck eventually repossessed.
It was repo'd March 2017 even though they list DoFD as October 2017. I sent a DV letter last month requesting the following:
1. Any contract or agreement, bearing the signature(s) of the debtor(s), wherein the debtor agreed to pay the original creditor, including terms and conditions, explanation of the consideration and signatures by all parties to the contract or agreement;
2. A payment ledger for the above referenced account showing all payments made to the account, the date they were made and the resulting balance;
3. If the property that is the subject of this debt was sold, please provide all documentation relating to that sale including who purchased the property, the date of sale, the amount the property sold for and the condition of the property at the time of sale;
They responded with a single paragraph letter saying after conducting a reasonable investigation... see attached retail installment agreement.
But they sent me someone else's contract. Some gal in CA for a BMW X3. So they didn't answer any of my requests and sent me a random contract.
Is this enough to move for a removal through the CRAs? I'm thinking to dispute it as "not mine" and provide the corr. and response. Any input is greatly appreciated
I do not agree that I am responsible for this debt. The truck was repossessed and sold at auction (I assume). How am I to know what the dollar figure listed on my CR consists of or its accuracy? For all I know, the sale of the truck satisfied the loan and they have mistakenly reported someone else's default on my CR. This isn't a big sophisticated lender but rather a small regional subprime outfit. I have no reason to trust their record keeping which is supported by the fact that they sent me a sales contract for some stranger. While I understand as a co-signer I would be equally responsible for a loan, the reality is it's my brother's debt and he'll resolve it. I am concerned about the black eye on my CR.
DV as stated above only applies to debt collectors, not Original Creditors, and what the Debt Collector is required to send if you send a DV letter within 5 days of the original response(Edit: response=communication) , is very limited.
DV letters can of course request more information, but the DC doesn't have to comply.
That being said, there are times that it can be advantageous to request more and different tactics are utilized for different purposes.
In your case, I doubt that would be enough to have it removed from a CRA. However, it does tell you a couple things about this debt collector (if it is a debt collector and not the original creditor.) More on that in a moment.
I am not an expert and have not participated in serious credit repair activities, but according to what I have researched, here are a couple of tactics used by some attorneys regarding DV letters, that in a round about way, apply to your scenario.
1.) (Do not use this tactic without speaking to an attorney who in your case will probably say do not use this tactic.) Sometimes attorneys will send a qualified cease and desist letter that basically says stop contacting my client until you provide... and then provide a long list of documents that the debt collector is not required to send (much like you did). This is an attempt to trap the DC, the attorney is hoping the DC does 1 of 2 things. A.) The DC says we don't have to provide that and contacts the client anyway, in which case they violate the cease and Decist order. B.) Actually complies and sends the documents but fails to include even small required language such as "This is an attempt to collect a debt..." Or in some states, "This debt is non-collectible debt...." If it's outside the SoL.
They do that for the purposes of being able to sue the DC for allotted fines and legal fees but instead negotiate the debt comming off the credit report, being reduced, and setting up a favorable payment plan. Here is the problem in your situation, if the debt is within SoL and you send any kind of a cease and desist letter, they basically have one legal recourse, to sue you. Since this is an auto repo, and without knowing the finer details, I am going to assume you owe enough that they probably would.
So why do I mention this, because while researching this I learned that according the attorney, you can sometimes tell a lot about the DC by what they send. If they send information that they are not required to, well the harder they try to be compliant, the more likely they are to mess up and incur potential fines.
In your case, not only did they send documentation they were not required to, but they sent the wrong contract. To me this says they are not very organized, and it's possible that through disputing information on the CR, you might get lucky and get it dropped off.
Of course I am no attorney or expert in anyway, just sharing what I heard from an attorney in a online seminar (out of pure curiosity stemming from my discovery of MyFico forums) who also very clearly stated that every scenario is different, he wasn't giving legal advice, etc...
ADD: If you get it off, that doesn't mean it stays off, you should then contact them and essentially say, it's off my credit report, I would like to keep it that way, let's make an arrangement. Just my opinion.
DV letters can of course request more information, but the DC doesn't have to comply.
That being said, there are times that it can be advantageous to request more and different tactics are utilized for different purposes.
In your case, I doubt that would be enough to have it removed from a CRA. However, it does tell you a couple things about this debt collector (if it is a debt collector and not the original creditor.) More on that in a moment.
I am not an expert and have not participated in serious credit repair activities, but according to what I have researched, here are a couple of tactics used by some attorneys regarding DV letters, that in a round about way, apply to your scenario.
1.) (Do not use this tactic without speaking to an attorney who in your case will probably say do not use this tactic.) Sometimes attorneys will send a qualified cease and desist letter that basically says stop contacting my client until you provide... and then provide a long list of documents that the debt collector is not required to send (much like you did). This is an attempt to trap the DC, the attorney is hoping the DC does 1 of 2 things. A.) The DC says we don't have to provide that and contacts the client anyway, in which case they violate the cease and Decist order. B.) Actually complies and sends the documents but fails to include even small required language such as "This is an attempt to collect a debt..." Or in some states, "This debt is non-collectible debt...." If it's outside the SoL.
They do that for the purposes of being able to sue the DC for allotted fines and legal fees but instead negotiate the debt comming off the credit report, being reduced, and setting up a favorable payment plan. Here is the problem in your situation, if the debt is within SoL and you send any kind of a cease and desist letter, they basically have one legal recourse, to sue you. Since this is an auto repo, and without knowing the finer details, I am going to assume you owe enough that they probably would.
So why do I mention this, because while researching this I learned that according the attorney, you can sometimes tell a lot about the DC by what they send. If they send information that they are not required to, well the harder they try to be compliant, the more likely they are to mess up and incur potential fines.
In your case, not only did they send documentation they were not required to, but they sent the wrong contract. To me this says they are not very organized, and it's possible that through disputing information on the CR, you might get lucky and get it dropped off.
Of course I am no attorney or expert in anyway, just sharing what I heard from an attorney in a online seminar (out of pure curiosity stemming from my discovery of MyFico forums) who also very clearly stated that every scenario is different, he wasn't giving legal advice, etc...
ADD: If you get it off, that doesn't mean it stays off, you should then contact them and essentially say, it's off my credit report, I would like to keep it that way, let's make an arrangement. Just my opinion.
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