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When does a charge-off fall off? NOT from DoFD?

gdale6
Moderator

Re: When does a charge-off fall off? NOT from DoFD?


@darwin_wins wrote:

I have asked this before and few of you guys have answered it but it wasn't clear to me at that point (then I got busy with other things to ask about it again), does CA ever report a DOFD? If the OC doesn't appear on your report and the CA now holds the debt but their date is more recent (have an entry from SW Credit Systems) whose drop off date on EX is 2020 but TU will take it out next year how does one dispute this info with EX?

 

I have another one which is going to most likely report in same way and lack of DOFD I can't even send in a letter to MCM stating that the debt will be SOL and they can't sue me for anything. I am hoping that never happens, but importantly I would like to know when it will fall off once it starts showing up on the report. The DOFD probably happened late 2009 or early 2010 (Jan/ Feb) so in 5 odd months it would be SOL and if it was late 2009 (Nov/ Dec) then it will SOL within 2-3 months.

 

Can anyone shed light on how to figure these things out?


A CA is required to report the DoFD to the CRA within 90 days of posting their TL to your report and they have to operate from the DoFD set by the OC. A CA can report the date they received the collection but there is no CRTP calculations from that date.

 

I would call the CRA and ask them what the reported DoFD is and compare it to what the OC says. You may have to call the OC if it isnt reporting on their TL.

Message 11 of 19
RobertEG
Legendary Contributor

Re: When does a charge-off fall off? NOT from DoFD?

When a debt collector reports a collection, they are required to report the DOFD to the CRA within 90 days after reporting of their collection.

That requirment is set forth in FCRA 623(a)(5), along with the procedure to be followed in obtaining and reporting the DOFD.

 

It is a multi-step porcess which is based on the fact that it is the OC, and not the debt collector, who has the records to establish the actual date of first delinquency on their account. 

 

Step one applies to situations where the creditor has previously reported the DOFD on their account to a CRA.

If the OC has reported the DOFD (which is only required if they reported a charge-off of the debt to the CRA), then the debt collector can report that same date without having to contact the OC and inquire as to the DOFD.  Thus, the debt collector can simply review a credit report of the consumer, and if it shows a DOFD reported by the OC, they are in compliance with section 623(a)(5) if they report that same date.

 

Step 2 applies to situations where the OC has not reported the DOFD to a CRA.  That is common unless the OC has reported a prior charge-off.

The debt collector is then required to contact the OC and make a reasonable effort to obtain the DOFD from the OC.

If the OC provides them a DOFD, then the debt collector is in compliance if htey report that same date to the CRA.

 

Step 3 is the catch-all provision which applies when the debt collector has made a reasonable attempt to obtain the DOFD from the OC, but were unsuccessful.

In such situations, the debt collector must still report a DOFD to the CRA within 90 days after reporting their collection, and may then make their best guess as to the DOFD.

However, since section 605(c) defines the DOFD as the date of first delinquency that preceded the collection referral, section 623(a)(5) stipulates that, in no case can they report a DOFD that is later than the date they received their collection authority.

 

In most situations, the consumer will have no idea as to whether the debt collector contacted the OC, and if so, whether that attempt was successful, and what, if any, DOFD was provided by the OC.  It thus may be necessary to bring civil action in order to show that the debt collector failed to comply with the statute.

 

If the consumer does have basis, such as their own account records, to show the factual DOFD, they can file a dispute of the reported DOFD and show that a date assumed by the debt collector or provided by the OC was not accurate. 

If the reported DOFD is accurate but the collection continues to appear in the consumer's credit report later than 7 years plus 180 days from the DOFD (not common), then there is no issue of a dispute over the accuracy of credit reporting.  The issue would be a complaint against the CRA for violation of the exclusion requirement of FCRA 605(a)(4) as clarified by FCRA 605(c).

Message 12 of 19
darwin_wins
Established Contributor

Re: When does a charge-off fall off? NOT from DoFD?

Thank you RobertEG. At this point OC probably has no record (haven't tried to even contact them or know where/ whom to call and ask) and I didn't look at the CR when this happened (partly because I wasn't in US at that point). When I came back, the only course I knew was just sit tight and let these age out (should have looked and save reports but I had no idea at that point). So I never saw if FIA actually reported DOFD or not.

 

If it was reported, wouldn't CRA's know about it and report it even though CA isn't reporting it? With the missing OC DOFD, it just adds almost 4 years before it can be dropped off from the report and 3 years for them to try and sue. In SW Credit systems, I can easily write them a letter and negotiate PFD because the amount isn't huge but in other case the amount is large enough for me to not be able to pay it off even with the supposedly offered discount.

 

Is there no way to figure out DOFD if CA doesn't put in any efforts? Do CRA's look at other reports and decide that the OC DOFD reported is far more accurate than what CA is reporting? On my TU from last year (thank my stars I requested and saved it) it said

Estimated month and year that this item will be removed: 12/2016

 

Can I furnish this as proof to other CRA's if they don't report it properly?

Message 13 of 19
alienfico
Frequent Contributor

Re: When does a charge-off fall off? NOT from DoFD?

 

Thanks Darwin_wins.....your point about the other CRAs is valid, although they all act independently of one another.  

 

Thanks Robert EG  your insight, knowledge, and explanations are very helpful.

 

Starting: TU:515, EX:521, EQ:528
Current: TU:700 EX:706 EQ:674
FICO Goal: 725
Cap1 Venture $11,000AU, First Progress $500, Cap1 QS $1750, FH$600, Open Sky $300, Cap1 $500, BestBuy $1500 Target $1800
Message 14 of 19
RobertEG
Legendary Contributor

Re: When does a charge-off fall off? NOT from DoFD?

The purpose of FCRA 623(a)(5) is for the CRA NOT to have to guess/determine the DOFD.  It is a positive requirment for the party who reports either a charge-off or colleciton to separately report the DOFD to the CRA.  The CRA cannot calculate exclusion without knowing the DOFD.

The CRA cannot, for example, look at OC reporting and assume a reported 30-late is the DOFD.  Creditors are not required to report the first late when it actually ocurs, and can wait or never report a 30-late.  Additionally, a 30-late, by definition, lags the date of account delinquency by at least 30 days.

 

If you disagree with an assumed DOFD reported by a debt collector (or for that matter, a DOFD reported by an OC), you can always submit a dispute, accompanied by your supporting documentation, such as prior account records, that establishes what you consider to be the accurate DOFD.  Hopefully, you have retained account records, or can order them from the OC.

 

If you ever have different reporting of DOFD by the creditor and the debt collector on the same delinquent debt, then the reporting by the OC would provide adequate documentation to support a dispute of the inconsistent reporting by the debt collector.  The OC is the party who knows what happened on their account, and their reporting trumps.

Message 15 of 19
ronpa
Frequent Contributor

Re: When does a charge-off fall off? NOT from DoFD?

None of the better known paid / free credit report services, including MyFICO, Experian Credit Tracker / CCT, and CreditKarma, show DOFD. So unless you view the reports directly via AnnualCreditReport.com or via dispute access (ie. turned down for a credit card; didn't get the best rate possible; etc) at one or more of the bureaus, you won't have complete information. The estimated date of removal shown anywhere else is likely a guess, and probably a poor one at that.

 

On credit reports that show DOFD and/or estimated date of removal, that info won't be shown for some OCs. This is common for debt that's being collected by a CA, and generally not of any concern. Usually best not to open any disputes for DOFD unless one is very sure there really is a problem. Otherwise, there's a risk of the DOFD being adjusted adversely. Or more likely, opening a dispute could result in the OC or CA updating the tradeline, often leading to a score drop.

 

DOFD shown on credit reports is for credit reporting purposes only. It's not the legal DOFD, which is often close, but can vary somewhat. The key for legal DOFD is when the account first came into default and remained so with no additional activity (ie. purchases) nor payments. With all the regulatory oversight lately, many CAs are being extra careful to check paperwork and the legal DOFD before filing suit.

 

So if the SOL, for credit card type debt, in your state, for example, is 5 years, and you haven't paid anything in well over that (ie. 6+ months beyond SOL), regardless of whatever DOFD is shown on your credit reports, you're likely in the clear in regards to being sued; having it thrown out for being "time barred".

Starting Score Mar-15: EX-513, TU-507, EQ-510
Current Score Oct-15: EX-658, TU-631, EQ-628
Message 16 of 19
darwin_wins
Established Contributor

Re: When does a charge-off fall off? NOT from DoFD?


@ronpa wrote:

None of the better known paid / free credit report services, including MyFICO, Experian Credit Tracker / CCT, and CreditKarma, show DOFD. So unless you view the reports directly via AnnualCreditReport.com or via dispute access (ie. turned down for a credit card; didn't get the best rate possible; etc) at one or more of the bureaus, you won't have complete information. The estimated date of removal shown anywhere else is likely a guess, and probably a poor one at that.

 

On credit reports that show DOFD and/or estimated date of removal, that info won't be shown for some OCs. This is common for debt that's being collected by a CA, and generally not of any concern. Usually best not to open any disputes for DOFD unless one is very sure there really is a problem. Otherwise, there's a risk of the DOFD being adjusted adversely. Or more likely, opening a dispute could result in the OC or CA updating the tradeline, often leading to a score drop.

 

DOFD shown on credit reports is for credit reporting purposes only. It's not the legal DOFD, which is often close, but can vary somewhat. The key for legal DOFD is when the account first came into default and remained so with no additional activity (ie. purchases) nor payments. With all the regulatory oversight lately, many CAs are being extra careful to check paperwork and the legal DOFD before filing suit.

 

So if the SOL, for credit card type debt, in your state, for example, is 5 years, and you haven't paid anything in well over that (ie. 6+ months beyond SOL), regardless of whatever DOFD is shown on your credit reports, you're likely in the clear in regards to being sued; having it thrown out for being "time barred".


 

The report I am looking at was actually from dispute report from EX. I saw this date issue and decided to start a dispute (of course didn't go through it) and it was the same when I asked EX to send me a free report based on the fact that I was denied credit in last 60 days ( I had apped but was turned down).

 

I have one year anniversary coming up with TU and I have never ordered any free reports from EQ/ EX. When CA hits the reports for the dunning notice I got, I will order all of them. I am subscribed to EQ (www.econsumer.equifax.com/otc/showmyequifax.ehtml) through Penfed, I may just order them to make sure that the report is correct.

 

As for SOL, I think I may be approaching it or may be past it, I have no idea. The estimated date is from TU report (annualcreditreport.com report) which is Dec 2016. So if the calculations are correct and SOL is 6 years (which is it in CT/ NJ), then I have passed that date or may be approaching soon (Jan/ Feb of next year). I don't want to dispute the DOFD unless it shows up as 2013 which would mean that thing won't fall off till 2020 (already have one item which shows up as that). I am really not looking forward to the drop this CA is going to cause but unfortunately I don't have 10K lying around and even with their discount it is still 6K.

 

Although I know it is advocated to pay off the whole amount (which is essentially the right thing to do), what would one offer CAs if it is beyond SOL? If it is supposed to drop off by the end of next year and if I can pay off a small portion of it to never to be sold again I can think about it but if they say pay us 2K well then I guess I have to wait it out.

Message 17 of 19
ronpa
Frequent Contributor

Re: When does a charge-off fall off? NOT from DoFD?

Maybe you mentioned it already, but for clarification, was the 2013 date shown as actual DOFD? --or date the collection account was opened?  A collection account opened date has no relation to DOFD.

 

EQ subscription service, presumably, won't show DOFDs. Ordering a EQ free report via dispute access is a cinch. Visit https://aa.econsumer.equifax.com/aad/landing.ehtml and click the "Denied Credit, Insurance, Change in Credit Limit or Other Benefit" option, answer the verification questions, and you'll have the detailed DOFD info...

 

Be sure to click Save as PDF button for complete report view and/or click Print report. After you leave, the report may still be available later with the report number, but some data may be suppressed. Very important to save as PDF on first view. Likewise with TransUnion. Experian is more user friendly, and can be viewed again in full with no hassles.

 

In my view, unless the debt is still directly held by the OC for which you may want to do business with again, such as, for example, Amex or Capital One, don't bother. Let it ride, and fall off. However, it's your call how to proceed - if you want to pay, go for it. Midland may be hessistant to settle some types of out of SOL debt for any amount nor resell it given the recent regulatory issues they're facing...

 

As for your question, 10%-25% for out of SOL debt. Don't agree to any type of payment plan; pay in lumpsum only to avoid creating a new debt with a new SOL.

Starting Score Mar-15: EX-513, TU-507, EQ-510
Current Score Oct-15: EX-658, TU-631, EQ-628
Message 18 of 19
darwin_wins
Established Contributor

Re: When does a charge-off fall off? NOT from DoFD?


@ronpa wrote:

Maybe you mentioned it already, but for clarification, was the 2013 date shown as actual DOFD? --or date the collection account was opened?  A collection account opened date has no relation to DOFD.

 

EQ subscription service, presumably, won't show DOFDs. Ordering a EQ free report via dispute access is a cinch. Visit https://aa.econsumer.equifax.com/aad/landing.ehtml and click the "Denied Credit, Insurance, Change in Credit Limit or Other Benefit" option, answer the verification questions, and you'll have the detailed DOFD info...

 

Be sure to click Save as PDF button for complete report view and/or click Print report. After you leave, the report may still be available later with the report number, but some data may be suppressed. Very important to save as PDF on first view. Likewise with TransUnion. Experian is more user friendly, and can be viewed again in full with no hassles.

 

In my view, unless the debt is still directly held by the OC for which you may want to do business with again, such as, for example, Amex or Capital One, don't bother. Let it ride, and fall off. However, it's your call how to proceed - if you want to pay, go for it. Midland may be hessistant to settle some types of out of SOL debt for any amount nor resell it given the recent regulatory issues they're facing...

 

As for your question, 10%-25% for out of SOL debt. Don't agree to any type of payment plan; pay in lumpsum only to avoid creating a new debt with a new SOL.


 

 

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Rebuilding-Your-Credit/DOFD-doesn-t-show-up-on-EX-report-HELP/m-p/42...

 

Thiis what I am referring to. I had created this thread to ask question on missing DOFD. This screenshot is a part of report I got when I clicked on the service, saw it on EX and clicked on EX dispute to dispute the date (didn't go through).

 

It is not a place with whom I will do business again, if I do I don't think they will care (BoA). The reason I asked if I should get it off the report is for mortgage. If I decide to app in 3 years from all the disputes are gone will it show up on the full report? I don't want that to be a hassle at that point. If it doesn't then I don't think care enough about it. My score hasn't changed in few months and it will probably drop with this new CA but going by TU (was held by Asset Acceptance LLC) it was supposed to drop by Dec 2016. If MCM doesn't screw up dates it should still drop even after adding it to my report. If I was to make an offer it will always be "This is what I am paying, will you delete it. " If they say no well it can stay with them.

 

The letter that MCM sent doesn't have any DOFD info either. Once they put it on my CR, I will have to go and start disputing process (or get reports from annualcreditreports) and get proper report (without completing the process).

Message 19 of 19
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