You must ALWAYS VALIDATE -Validation of Medical Debts Collections is Critical even if they are old

[WinningEveryday]

I am here to provide data points for people who are looking for solid answers. I had 3 medical debts totaling $25,000. I sent out a 609 letter which got 3 deletions but I did not included the medical debts. I falsely assume they would go for pay for delete.

I was very very wrong.

I called up the first collection which was the largest of $15,000 and I offered $3000 I got shot down. The guy on the phone told me they would not send me a letter stating that if I paid they would delete the information from my credit bureas.  He did infere that if we came to an arrangement that could come off my credit reports in a very tongue and cheek manner.

I hung up the phone. I did some more research.

I took a shot of sending a valdiuation letter cerfited mail and I even sent it priority mail. 

I moved so the validation letter came from a new address - I don't know if that has anything to do with it - I am just trying to provide all of the information I can.

I know they sent me collection letters months ago. Like I said I though they would go for pay for delete. So I sent my valdation letters well outside of the 30 days indicted in the collection letters. Also this was after 180 days since the collections were on my credit report.

They got the letters on Dec 27 , 2021 on Jan 18 the largest collection came off of my Experian and Transunion - they never reported to my Exquifax. On Jan 19 the second collection came off of my Experian  and Tranunion resulting in a 35 point increase on Experian and 50 point increase on Transunion.

So the lesson here is you should validate medical collections even if they are old by cerfified mail.  What do you have to loose? I woiuld provide some caution. I am in a position that if they came after me I could pay it. So you got to be careful with poking the bear.

So as soon as you get the collection letter you should vaildate and then go from there.

I am down to only one bad item on my credit report. Getting ready to write my second dispute letter very very soon.

[Cowboys4Life]

"I was very very wrong."

Boy if ever there was an understatement.  Your beliefs are so wrong and based on outdated information that I have NO clue where you are getting it from.

First:  debt validation is only required if you send it for ANY debt within 30 days after receiving the FIRST contact/dunning letter from the creditor/CA/JDB under the FDCPA.  There are a few states (Texas and California to name 2) that give their residents the ability to DV at any time if they properly invoke their state law(s) on collections.  ANY DV sent based on finding a trade line on credit report(s) can be ignored under the FDCPA as that is NOT contact with the consumer.  ANY DV sent based on a debt that is old and collections notices were sent a long time ago can be ignored.  The larger collectors today do tend to respond to any DV but they are not required to and that is a big difference.

"I called up the first collection which was the largest of $15,000 and I offered $3000 I got shot down."

Second:  medical debt is very very different from credit card debt.  You cannot always settle for less and that entirely depends on whether or not insurance was used in the care.  If the claim was processed through a policy then neither the provider(s) or the CAs can discount the amount required out of pocket as that is illegal rebating and a violation of the contract.  ANY opportunity to pay less when insurance is not involved is within 90 - 180 days from the care received.  Negotiating with a hospital for charity care also involves providing proof of need which many do not bother to do.  Once the debt is sent to collections and a couple of years are gone then that budget for charity care is exhausted and current year funds cannot be used for past bills.  The best time to negotiate is when the bills come in and a payment plan is set up.  Even if charity care is applied that is usually only large hospitals and clinics.  Individual physicians, labs, radiologists etc. are not required to give charity care even if the hospital did.  Many patients assume that because the hospital wrote it off all the others who billed will as well.

As for the deletions:  chances are good the account(s) are now being farmed out to another CA who will turn around and report.  If it stays off then you got the deletion because the CA no longer has a business relationship with the provider(s) and cannot confirm the account not because of any magic DV letter you sent or the outdated 609 "jack attack" letter either.

[bass_playr]

I can appreciate that you're trying to get to a certain point, but you're not allowing anyone to help you because you post lots of stuff, just not anything that can help anyone here to help you.

What debt collectors are you dealing with?  Most people in these forums have dealt with debt collectors, and can often help you with what they did in dealing with a specific collector--and how it worked or didn't work.  

What kinds of accounts and account balances are you dealing with?  At one point, you posted that this Discover issue and three collections are all that's keeping you out of the 750 club, but if just one of those is a $15,000 collection, I'd wager to say that you have oversimplified that statement a bit.  

How old are the accounts?  As you've already seen, you have relied upon some erroneous information in recent postings that we have tried to help you to understand.  

What good credit have you established?  Many people here are a literal wealth of knowledge based on their own credit journeys, and can usually help to point you in the right direction there as well.

This forum is a HUGE resource of help and information.  Use it.  It works.  When I first came here, my credit score was literally in the low 400s.  I've gained more than 200 points on all three bureaus since then.  Still not done, but much closer to where I want to be--and thanks to this forum I've even been able to reset my goals to higher ones.  You mentioned how you sent out validation letters.  Here's the fact on that--some debt collectors will drop the account and run the moment anyone does something that shows that consumer has any idea about their rights under the law.  But not all debt collectors do that.  Eventually, there's a good chance that if your account gets passed around, it will end up with a debt collector that does more than just close the file in their office--especially if you're talking about $15,000 debts.  You do not know why the entry was removed from your credit, but it's a safe bet with a balance that hight that you and your credit reports have probably not heard the last of this account.  

[WinningEveryday]

@bass_playr wrote:

I can appreciate that you're trying to get to a certain point, but you're not allowing anyone to help you because you post lots of stuff, just not anything that can help anyone here to help you.

What debt collectors are you dealing with?  Most people in these forums have dealt with debt collectors, and can often help you with what they did in dealing with a specific collector--and how it worked or didn't work.  

What kinds of accounts and account balances are you dealing with?  At one point, you posted that this Discover issue and three collections are all that's keeping you out of the 750 club, but if just one of those is a $15,000 collection, I'd wager to say that you have oversimplified that statement a bit.  

How old are the accounts?  As you've already seen, you have relied upon some erroneous information in recent postings that we have tried to help you to understand.  

What good credit have you established?  Many people here are a literal wealth of knowledge based on their own credit journeys, and can usually help to point you in the right direction there as well.

This forum is a HUGE resource of help and information.  Use it.  It works.  When I first came here, my credit score was literally in the low 400s.  I've gained more than 200 points on all three bureaus since then.  Still not done, but much closer to where I want to be--and thanks to this forum I've even been able to reset my goals to higher ones.  You mentioned how you sent out validation letters.  Here's the fact on that--some debt collectors will drop the account and run the moment anyone does something that shows that consumer has any idea about their rights under the law.  But not all debt collectors do that.  Eventually, there's a good chance that if your account gets passed around, it will end up with a debt collector that does more than just close the file in their office--especially if you're talking about $15,000 debts.  You do not know why the entry was removed from your credit, but it's a safe bet with a balance that hight that you and your credit reports have probably not heard the last of this account.  

I have established $50,000 in new credit and the only thing holding me back right now is Discover.  That is the only Derog on my credit report now. I got 4 years of clean history now. Working on the second  dispute letter now .  Waiting to see what Discover sends me. Some people say the 609 letter is garbage I got 3 deletions from the 609 letter.  So in my mind it worked.

I do know that the valdation letters to the collections worked. All 3 collections are gone. Also if the debt is passed around that means that they will not have the information to valdate the debts- because the furnisher of the debt could not validate - so as soon as I get a letter from another debt collector I will seek valdiation on the new debt collector.

Help?

Some people here are helpful.  Very True! Some  people are  know it all **bleep**. I saw repeatedly that it was not going to work- but it worked. I am trying to help people out because I am a data and numbers guy.

I have been in court 25 times and I have won 23 times. If you do a google search on Discover you will see that they have been - successfully - sued for the same issue I have with them. First and foremost I got to build a case. Which means I got to send at least 3 disputes letters. I already got some good data from the first dispute.

I am posting to help people who are looking for more data points. I got people saying I am hasty and going to get burned because I am agressive. I have been doing credit disputs for 24 days and seen a 35-50 point increase across the board. Which i feel is pretty good.

Once I get Discover off - and I will- I will be at 750 -770 across the board. I am not some wet behind the ears kid. I am a successful business man. because I make so much money the I never felt the sting of bad credit. I was able to buy whatever I wanted cash including cars.

The only thing this has held me back from is buying a house- which is the next goal in 2 years- by then all of this will be cleared up.

[bass_playr]

I have established $50,000 in new credit and the only thing holding me back right now is Discover.  That is the only Derog on my credit report now. I got 4 years of clean history now. Working on the second  dispute letter now .  Waiting to see what Discover sends me. Some people say the 609 letter is garbage I got 3 deletions from the 609 letter.  So in my mind it worked.  Your experience is what it is, but you're acting like you got the secret solution to the world.  You don't.  You tried the 609 letter in a way that the law applied by the 609 letter does not even state.  In fact, calling it a 609 letter is not even correct because its content is not based on 609 to start with.  As you also found, some of your "success" was already shown to be just temporary.  This is not a temporary issue, solutions here should be permanent.  

I do know that the valdation letters to the collections worked. All 3 collections are gone. Also if the debt is passed around that means that they will not have the information to valdate the debts- because the furnisher of the debt could not validate - so as soon as I get a letter from another debt collector I will seek valdiation on the new debt collector.  No, you don't know that the validation letters "worked".  In fact, you sent one to Discover and that law does not even apply to Discover in any way.  You also told us that you had 3 medical collections, and you told us that two of them came off.  You never mentioned what happened to the third.  But now, you say that all three came off?  Forgive me if I'm wrong about this, but if your own narrative keeps changing, what are we to believe is actually happening here?

Validation letters have a specific purpose within the law and that's the fact.  By reading your post, you have Discover and one medical debt still outstanding.  If you sent one outside of the applicable conditions of that law, and this is the result you got, so be it, but to act like you discovered some hidden secret?  You did not.  

Help?

Some people here are helpful.  Very True! Some  people are  know it all **bleep**. I saw repeatedly that it was not going to work- but it worked. I am trying to help people out because I am a data and numbers guy.  You're not providing any info that would actually help anyone because the data and numbers guy left out all of the data and numbers.  Where is your data?  Your numbers?  You posted next to nothing, aside from stating you had a $15K medical debt and that you were seeking info from 609 letters that even a 609 letter is not designed to provide.  

And yes, many people tried to tell you that the 609 letter does not do what you claimed you were doing it for---I was one of them.  See, you call yourself a data and numbers guy....well, I'm a "study the laws and case law" guy.  I've been to court as a plaintiff and a defendant in my own cases and never lost--including two wrongful foreclosure attempts against me--without an attorney.  But this isn't a pissing contest.  This is about getting correct info and helping others.  Telling people to use letters that are not intended for your stated purpose is not helping them.  Telling people to send validation to a party that it doesnt even apply to is not helping them.  

I have been in court 25 times and I have won 23 times. If you do a google search on Discover you will see that they have been - successfully - sued for the same issue I have with them. First and foremost I got to build a case. Which means I got to send at least 3 disputes letters. I already got some good data from the first dispute.  First off, we don't even know what that issue is, aside from the fact that you openly admitted to not paying that debt and then you tried to claim you were going to sue them for being on your credit.  You ADMITTED IN WRITING to owing them.  If they get their hands on that public post--and debt collectors and creditors DO often troll these kinds of forums--then you're going to be on the hook for a frivilous lawsuit and their legal fees.  But you're so busy thumping your chest that you don't let anyone actually tell you anything---you pretend they are just "know it all" haters because they didn't agree with you.  That's not what this place is and that's not how this works.  

Second, you don't need three rounds of disputes to build a case.  You need one--especially if you do it right.  If you dispute, and they verify an incorrect entry--and you can prove it's incorrect--then that's your case.  What law do you intend to sue under?  FCRA?  It can't be FDCPA because Discover is not a third party.  

I am posting to help people who are looking for more data points. I got people saying I am hasty and going to get burned because I am agressive. I have been doing credit disputs for 24 days and seen a 35-50 point increase across the board. Which i feel is pretty good.  That's not a bad 24 days.  But it is far from making you the proud expert you're coming off as.  You are being told what you're being told by people who have been doing this for years---some of whom have put their credit scores into the 800s.  And you're blowing them off with attitude because you think you know better....after 24 days.  This is a marathon like I've told you---getting it off is not the whole battle.  Humble yourself.  For real.  Being aggressive is not a bad thing--but all speed and no vector is.  The worst I've seen anyone in here tell you was to be aggressive in the proper directions.  That's it.  And you apparently took great offense to that, which there's no good reason for.  

Once I get Discover off - and I will- I will be at 750 -770 across the board. I am not some wet behind the ears kid. I am a successful business man. because I make so much money the I never felt the sting of bad credit. I was able to buy whatever I wanted cash including cars.  Being successful in business has nothing to do with being successful in dealing with credit cleanup.  Although, if you've truly been in court 25 times, I don't quite think I would call that successful, but I digress.  I sincerely hope you reach your goals.  I really do.  So does everyone else here that tried to help you, or else they would not have even bothered posting to you.  

The only thing this has held me back from is buying a house- which is the next goal in 2 years- by then all of this will be cleared up.  First, if you make so much money, you could have handled a house purchse long ago without the need for credit.  Second, there are several lenders who would write a mortgage with average credit, but with a good chunk of down payment.  Look, there were people buying new houses a year or two ago with credit scores above 630 and with 10% down or sometimes even less.  Third, if you truly only have Discover to deal with, you should be able to get into a house long before 2 years from now.  

[WinningEveryday]

No, you don't know that the validation letters "worked".  In fact, you sent one to Discover and that law does not even apply to Discover in any way.  You also told us that you had 3 medical collections, and you told us that two of them came off.  You never mentioned what happened to the third.  But now, you say that all three came off?  Forgive me if I'm wrong about this, but if your own narrative keeps changing, what are we to believe is actually happening here?

Validation letters have a specific purpose within the law and that's the fact.  By reading your post, you have Discover and one medical debt still outstanding.  If you sent one outside of the applicable conditions of that law, and this is the result you got, so be it, but to act like you discovered some hidden secret?  You did not.  

I sent the valdation letters to the collection company as well and now all 3 are off.  I am going to be buying a 2 million dollar house so my credit needs to be better. Yeah I could of got a $400,000 house last year cash. I clearly stated I sent the valdiation letters to the collection companies as well as Discover. 

To be clear all medial collections are off of my credit report. In 60 Days or less Discover will be off of my credit report.

[bass_playr]

I sent the valdation letters to the collection company as well and now all 3 are off.  I am going to be buying a 2 million dollar house so my credit needs to be better. Yeah I could of got a $400,000 house last year cash. I clearly stated I sent the valdiation letters to the collection companies as well as Discover.   Discover is not a third party collector subject to FDCPA.  So people were indeed correct to tell you that valdiation requests do not apply to original creditors like Discover.  Just because they responded to you, doesn't mean you're helping anyone by telling them to do the same in their situations.  Clearly, since you're still dealing with Discover, they still own that debt.  

And you clearly stated that you did not send letters to the debt collectors initially.  You've said a lot of things, actually.  But being that you're a data and numbers guy, I would guess that you would put a lot more clear details into such a post as this.  That's what data is, in fact, no?  You also clearly stated that one medical collection came off of two reports (was never on the third) and that another came off of your reports as well.  As a data guy, you're sure leaving a whole lot of data out of these posts that you say are here to help people.  If you don't post data, they have no idea what you are talking about or what actually happened....especially if you change what little data you do post later on.  

Seems to me that you don't even need a forum like this.  We're mere meat eaters here, not wealthy millionaire types.  Best of luck to you and your credit journey, and next time, don't be so condescending to people who literally are just trying to help you out.

[Cowboys4Life]

I am posting to help people who are looking for more data points. 

No. You are posting to brag and hear yourself talk.  There really are not any reliable or accurate data points in any of your threads that are useful to someone rebuilding.  What there is, is a LOT of rhetoric and bad advice from not understanding the FDCPA, FCRA and that state laws vary across the country.

Once I get Discover off - and I will- I will be at 750 -770 across the board.

You hope.  You have no way of knowing exactly what FICO will do and which scoring bucket you will land in as your data changes.  Scan the forums for the infinite number of threads from people who are way better at this than you who are confused as to why there is no change in their score(s) or the change they did get was not in any way what they expected.

The only thing this has held me back from is buying a house- which is the next goal in 2 years- by then all of this will be cleared up.  

Horse manure.  There are plenty of threads from people who have bought homes with much worse problems than you.  I seriously doubt that the only thing that held you back was Discover reporting.

I have been in court 25 times and I have won 23 times. 

This is NOT something to brag about.  It tells us that you have WAY more problems than you are acknowledging and any "data points" you are sharing are likely sugar coated or outright false.  I wouldn't trust it even if you attached alleged proof to your threads.

I have said it before and will say it again:  your advice is really really bad.  You ignore the fact that sending DV is specific to each individual including the debt, SOL, previous contact with creditors/collectors, and state they live in.  NO ONE here skilled in what we do recommends blindly sending DV letters in hopes of deletion.  In certain circumstances it is the LAST thing you want to do.  You are going to do what you want and continue to say what you do all we can do is rebut your posts and pray that a newbie doesn't blindly follow your example and get screwed by it.

[Remedios]

This thread has run its course.