Am I Blind?

[Fox342]

I hate to say this but I think she sees you as a big ole dollar sign.  I'm not saying she doesn't love you...but I do think she has a mountain of debt, a big spending habit, very poor financial habits, and now she wants to spend YOUR money.

Personally from what I know of your situation...I would have to see some big changes before I considered marrying a girl that could possibly ruin me financially.  And I do believe that marrying someone with a large amount of debt, big spending habits and very bad finanical habits is perfectly capable of ruining someone financially.

Fox

[Anonymous]

Agreed. 

[camera_jen]

Truth... as a woman I probably wouldn't respond well if the man I was dating basically demanded to see my credit report.  I think if you are discussing marriage, you both need to have a sit down discussion about your fiancial goals and planning together as a team.  Part of that discussion is being realistic about insurances, making large purchases, a long term plan for paying down debt, retirement, etc. and both of your credit reports will need to be pulled in order to assess and determine what is realistic and what you need to work on.  If she absolutely balks at this sort of discussion, I'd start wondering why.  I mean, how can you combine and plan if you have no idea what you're doing at all?  If it were me though, the approach you described would irk me and I'd resist it.  

To play devil's advocate, I would not be comfortable showing men I'm dating my credit report and I'd be very put off by it.  A large part of it stems from privacy issues I have that make me a little weird sometimes (I didn't have an ounce of privacy growing up and my ex husband took it upon himself to read my journals).  Part of it is not knowing if perhaps someone was trying to use me.  Women have a lot of the same issues and fears as men.  Is this person trying to use me for a free ride?  Maybe she has something that she doesn't want you to see but it isn't what you think.  My ex went to great lengths to make sure his new wife didn't see that my car was financed in his name because he didn't want to deal with explaining it to her (it's a very long story but I couldn't refi the car due to its age nor could I pay it off at the time we split).  

In regards to the advice to demand her divorce records or to just go pull them yourself, I completely disagree.  If someone I was considering marrying pulled my divorce records, I'd consider it a major violation of trust.  Yes they are public record, but there is a creepy factor about obtaining more than just confirmation I'm actually divorced.  Anything about me that a simple Google search wouldn't bring up is going behind my back and snooping the same as if you rifled through the paperwork I keep locked up.

If you feel that she is hiding stuff and you need to demand to see her credit report and divorce paperwork, you have bigger issues than a few sheets of paper.  My $.02.

[Fox342]

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@camera_jen wrote:

Truth... as a woman I probably wouldn't respond well if the man I was dating basically demanded to see my credit report.  I think if you are discussing marriage, you both need to have a sit down discussion about your fiancial goals and planning together as a team.  Part of that discussion is being realistic about insurances, making large purchases, a long term plan for paying down debt, retirement, etc. and both of your credit reports will need to be pulled in order to assess and determine what is realistic and what you need to work on.  If she absolutely balks at this sort of discussion, I'd start wondering why.  I mean, how can you combine and plan if you have no idea what you're doing at all?  If it were me though, the approach you described would irk me and I'd resist it.  

To play devil's advocate, I would not be comfortable showing men I'm dating my credit report and I'd be very put off by it.  A large part of it stems from privacy issues I have that make me a little weird sometimes (I didn't have an ounce of privacy growing up and my ex husband took it upon himself to read my journals).  Part of it is not knowing if perhaps someone was trying to use me.  Women have a lot of the same issues and fears as men.  Is this person trying to use me for a free ride?  Maybe she has something that she doesn't want you to see but it isn't what you think.  My ex went to great lengths to make sure his new wife didn't see that my car was financed in his name because he didn't want to deal with explaining it to her (it's a very long story but I couldn't refi the car due to its age nor could I pay it off at the time we split).  

In regards to the advice to demand her divorce records or to just go pull them yourself, I completely disagree.  If someone I was considering marrying pulled my divorce records, I'd consider it a major violation of trust.  Yes they are public record, but there is a creepy factor about obtaining more than just confirmation I'm actually divorced.  Anything about me that a simple Google search wouldn't bring up is going behind my back and snooping the same as if you rifled through the paperwork I keep locked up.

If you feel that she is hiding stuff and you need to demand to see her credit report and divorce paperwork, you have bigger issues than a few sheets of paper.  My $.02.

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I'm not sure if you've read this whole thread...but she's already balked at discussions about mutually disclosing finanicial information.  As a matter of fact she went so far as to only show him screen shots of brief parts of her credit report...that's a huge red flag to me.  

They're not just dating, they're seriously considering marriage, she's asked him when he's going to buy her a ring.  Finances are a very important part of a marriage...and it seems she doesn't want him to know her full financial picture.  I wouldn't ask a girl I'm "just dating" to see her credit report.  As a matter of fact I've never asked to see the credit report of any girl I've dated.  I can pretty much tell if they're good with finances or not by their behavior.  But when you start considering marriage I think you have a right to know everything that could affect you and the marriage...and finances are a big deal.  And yes, maybe they have the right to refuse to share information with you...but that's when you need to rethink your relationship in my opinion.

I don't remember seeing any posts where anyone recommended he "demand" to see her credit report or divorce records.  You say that you would be very put off by someone you're dating wanting to see your credit report and then you give a perfect example of why someone should want to see the credit report of someone they're about to marry...you said your ex had your car financed in your name and was hiding it from his new wife.  That is a prime example of why there should be full financial disclosure for anyone considering marriage...especially if you're seeing red flags already.  And your ex hiding that from his new wife is very dishonest.  

As for pulling divorce records.  If I had suspicions that made me go that far I would really have to reconsider why I'm even considering marrying this person.  But then again people do prenups all the time.  And what says I can't trust you more than a prenup?  At this point even if I decided not to marry the person I would probably go look at the divorce records just to confirm my suspicions.  And I would be willing to bet that there were fiancial problems involved in both previous marriages in this situation.

Basically to me it comes down to trust...and if the person is hiding stuff from me but is in a hurry to get married then I think I would really have to reconsider the entire relationship.  There are plenty of examples of women marrying men for their money, and men too, and you do have to protect yourself...no matter how much you think that person loves you.  Some people can be very deceitful.

Hope I didn't hurt anybody's feelings.  )

Fox

[Anonymous]

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@Fox342 wrote:

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@camera_jen wrote:

Truth... as a woman I probably wouldn't respond well if the man I was dating basically demanded to see my credit report.  I think if you are discussing marriage, you both need to have a sit down discussion about your fiancial goals and planning together as a team.  Part of that discussion is being realistic about insurances, making large purchases, a long term plan for paying down debt, retirement, etc. and both of your credit reports will need to be pulled in order to assess and determine what is realistic and what you need to work on.  If she absolutely balks at this sort of discussion, I'd start wondering why.  I mean, how can you combine and plan if you have no idea what you're doing at all?  If it were me though, the approach you described would irk me and I'd resist it.  

To play devil's advocate, I would not be comfortable showing men I'm dating my credit report and I'd be very put off by it.  A large part of it stems from privacy issues I have that make me a little weird sometimes (I didn't have an ounce of privacy growing up and my ex husband took it upon himself to read my journals).  Part of it is not knowing if perhaps someone was trying to use me.  Women have a lot of the same issues and fears as men.  Is this person trying to use me for a free ride?  Maybe she has something that she doesn't want you to see but it isn't what you think.  My ex went to great lengths to make sure his new wife didn't see that my car was financed in his name because he didn't want to deal with explaining it to her (it's a very long story but I couldn't refi the car due to its age nor could I pay it off at the time we split).  

In regards to the advice to demand her divorce records or to just go pull them yourself, I completely disagree.  If someone I was considering marrying pulled my divorce records, I'd consider it a major violation of trust.  Yes they are public record, but there is a creepy factor about obtaining more than just confirmation I'm actually divorced.  Anything about me that a simple Google search wouldn't bring up is going behind my back and snooping the same as if you rifled through the paperwork I keep locked up.

If you feel that she is hiding stuff and you need to demand to see her credit report and divorce paperwork, you have bigger issues than a few sheets of paper.  My $.02.

---

I'm not sure if you've read this whole thread...but she's already balked at discussions about mutually disclosing finanicial information.  As a matter of fact she went so far as to only show him screen shots of brief parts of her credit report...that's a huge red flag to me.  

They're not just dating, they're seriously considering marriage, she's asked him when he's going to buy her a ring.  Finances are a very important part of a marriage...and it seems she doesn't want him to know her full financial picture.  I wouldn't ask a girl I'm "just dating" to see her credit report.  As a matter of fact I've never asked to see the credit report of any girl I've dated.  I can pretty much tell if they're good with finances or not by their behavior.  But when you start considering marriage I think you have a right to know everything that could affect you and the marriage...and finances are a big deal.  And yes, maybe they have the right to refuse to share information with you...but that's when you need to rethink your relationship in my opinion.

I don't remember seeing any posts where anyone recommended he "demand" to see her credit report or divorce records.  You say that you would be very put off by someone you're dating wanting to see your credit report and then you give a perfect example of why someone should want to see the credit report of someone they're about to marry...you said your ex had your car financed in your name and was hiding it from his new wife.  That is a prime example of why there should be full financial disclosure for anyone considering marriage...especially if you're seeing red flags already.  And your ex hiding that from his new wife is very dishonest.  

As for pulling divorce records.  If I had suspicions that made me go that far I would really have to reconsider why I'm even considering marrying this person.  But then again people do prenups all the time.  And what says I can't trust you more than a prenup?  At this point even if I decided not to marry the person I would probably go look at the divorce records just to confirm my suspicions.  And I would be willing to bet that there were fiancial problems involved in both previous marriages in this situation.

Basically to me it comes down to trust...and if the person is hiding stuff from me but is in a hurry to get married then I think I would really have to reconsider the entire relationship.  There are plenty of examples of women marrying men for their money, and men too, and you do have to protect yourself...no matter how much you think that person loves you.  Some people can be very deceitful.

Hope I didn't hurt anybody's feelings.  )

Fox

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I agree 100%...

[Anonymous]

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@camera_jen wrote:

Truth... as a woman I probably wouldn't respond well if the man I was dating basically demanded to see my credit report.  I think if you are discussing marriage, you both need to have a sit down discussion about your fiancial goals and planning together as a team.  Part of that discussion is being realistic about insurances, making large purchases, a long term plan for paying down debt, retirement, etc. and both of your credit reports will need to be pulled in order to assess and determine what is realistic and what you need to work on.  If she absolutely balks at this sort of discussion, I'd start wondering why.  I mean, how can you combine and plan if you have no idea what you're doing at all?  If it were me though, the approach you described would irk me and I'd resist it.  

To play devil's advocate, I would not be comfortable showing men I'm dating my credit report and I'd be very put off by it.  A large part of it stems from privacy issues I have that make me a little weird sometimes (I didn't have an ounce of privacy growing up and my ex husband took it upon himself to read my journals).  Part of it is not knowing if perhaps someone was trying to use me.  Women have a lot of the same issues and fears as men.  Is this person trying to use me for a free ride?  Maybe she has something that she doesn't want you to see but it isn't what you think.  My ex went to great lengths to make sure his new wife didn't see that my car was financed in his name because he didn't want to deal with explaining it to her (it's a very long story but I couldn't refi the car due to its age nor could I pay it off at the time we split).  

We are well past the dating point, all of the disscusion is long term, she does balk at it, I am not using her for a free ride. Actually I offered to pay the bill hence I make more money than she does so she could pay down a credit card AMEX 7000/5000 limit hence it is one from her ex-husband. That "isnt what you think," that to me for sure means someone is hiding something. I am glad you posted this. What I found out is that she lied about her last name and still carries her ex husband last name. She said so her daugther would have the same name. I thought really, so no need for you to get married again. This came out because I was listening to them talk (she put it on speaker) and he said to her "I bet you havent even told your BF you still carry my last name haha," as to use it against her. I for sure wasnt happy about it. Now I wonder what else is being hidden.

In regards to the advice to demand her divorce records or to just go pull them yourself, I completely disagree.  If someone I was considering marrying pulled my divorce records, I'd consider it a major violation of trust.  Yes they are public record, but there is a creepy factor about obtaining more than just confirmation I'm actually divorced.  Anything about me that a simple Google search wouldn't bring up is going behind my back and snooping the same as if you rifled through the paperwork I keep locked up.

If you feel that she is hiding stuff and you need to demand to see her credit report and divorce paperwork, you have bigger issues than a few sheets of paper.  My $.02.

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Thanks for your view, I can appriciate that. As far as the creepy factor I dont understand as hence if we get married that also will be public record. I have also never demanded anything. I have gave her full disclosure to my credit reports. I told her she should be thankful so she knows I am not taking care of another woman nor will leave her with massive debt. I have not been married before and plan to do it one time only so I want to make sure I know what I am getting into. I guess all the studys and reports of finance being the biggest marriage killer is wrong. 

[camera_jen]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@camera_jen wrote:

Truth... as a woman I probably wouldn't respond well if the man I was dating basically demanded to see my credit report.  I think if you are discussing marriage, you both need to have a sit down discussion about your fiancial goals and planning together as a team.  Part of that discussion is being realistic about insurances, making large purchases, a long term plan for paying down debt, retirement, etc. and both of your credit reports will need to be pulled in order to assess and determine what is realistic and what you need to work on.  If she absolutely balks at this sort of discussion, I'd start wondering why.  I mean, how can you combine and plan if you have no idea what you're doing at all?  If it were me though, the approach you described would irk me and I'd resist it.  

To play devil's advocate, I would not be comfortable showing men I'm dating my credit report and I'd be very put off by it.  A large part of it stems from privacy issues I have that make me a little weird sometimes (I didn't have an ounce of privacy growing up and my ex husband took it upon himself to read my journals).  Part of it is not knowing if perhaps someone was trying to use me.  Women have a lot of the same issues and fears as men.  Is this person trying to use me for a free ride?  Maybe she has something that she doesn't want you to see but it isn't what you think.  My ex went to great lengths to make sure his new wife didn't see that my car was financed in his name because he didn't want to deal with explaining it to her (it's a very long story but I couldn't refi the car due to its age nor could I pay it off at the time we split).  

We are well past the dating point, all of the disscusion is long term, she does balk at it, I am not using her for a free ride. Actually I offered to pay the bill hence I make more money than she does so she could pay down a credit card AMEX 7000/5000 limit hence it is one from her ex-husband. That "isnt what you think," that to me for sure means someone is hiding something. I am glad you posted this. What I found out is that she lied about her last name and still carries her ex husband last name. She said so her daugther would have the same name. I thought really, so no need for you to get married again. This came out because I was listening to them talk (she put it on speaker) and he said to her "I bet you havent even told your BF you still carry my last name haha," as to use it against her. I for sure wasnt happy about it. Now I wonder what else is being hidden.

In regards to the advice to demand her divorce records or to just go pull them yourself, I completely disagree.  If someone I was considering marrying pulled my divorce records, I'd consider it a major violation of trust.  Yes they are public record, but there is a creepy factor about obtaining more than just confirmation I'm actually divorced.  Anything about me that a simple Google search wouldn't bring up is going behind my back and snooping the same as if you rifled through the paperwork I keep locked up.

If you feel that she is hiding stuff and you need to demand to see her credit report and divorce paperwork, you have bigger issues than a few sheets of paper.  My $.02.

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Thanks for your view, I can appriciate that. As far as the creepy factor I dont understand as hence if we get married that also will be public record. I have also never demanded anything. I have gave her full disclosure to my credit reports. I told her she should be thankful so she knows I am not taking care of another woman nor will leave her with massive debt. I have not been married before and plan to do it one time only so I want to make sure I know what I am getting into. I guess all the studys and reports of finance being the biggest marriage killer is wrong. 

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I get what you're saying.  I wasn't just trying to imply you're using her, just that the concern can go both ways and the comments on here have sort of implied that she may be a gold digger (not your comments specifically).  It sounds like maybe you're expecting reciprocity for something you gave that she maybe didn't ask for or is ready to give back, meaning full financial disclosure.  I don't know if that's the sitution but it could be.  At the same time, she also needs to understand that you can't be ready for marriage and sharing finances until the door swings both ways.  

In terms of the divorce records being public record, it varies by jurisdiction. Where I live, you can pull up a list of documents filed online but in order to see the documents you have to go down to the courthouse and pay for them if you want to see the actual paperwork.  It's an ordeal to get them, which is why I have several copies.  It would weird me out that someone would do this just to check up on me.  And considering parenting plans can change as the child gets older to recognize things like daycare for younger kids and extracurriculars for older kids (not to mention who claims on their taxes), this is part of the overall financial discussion so it definitely needs to be brought to the table anyway.  

As far as the last name, I'm a single mom and I completely understand why she did it.  I changed mine back to my maiden name and I get a lot of snarky comments (mostly from the PTA) about am I my son's guardian or older sister because we don't have the same last name. I have to provide proof of relationship more frequently than my friend who is a widow.  And truth be told, I probably will never change my name again even if I remarry because it's a pain.  What I do find strange is that she kept it from you and lied about her name.  Personally, if I did that I wouldn't advertise that I'd kept my ex's name but I also wouldn't go by my maiden name and I'd be truthful if directly asked.  No one I've been in a relationship has ever asked though.  It sounds like she is either self conscious about the decision (and why, I have no idea, it's just a name) or your suspicion is right on and she is hiding more.  I'm guessing that ex has more to hold over her head.  Whatever he may have may not even be that bad.  My ex tried to hold stuff over my head, some of it not even true, but he didn't stop until I stopped caring.  BUT, you have every reason to be concerned.  She is hiding stuff from you and you have no idea how insignificant or how huge it could be.  

[Anonymous]

Dude...run away, and fast. She's a gold digger. She wants you to buy her suff and tries to guilt you into it. She doesnt want to discuss finances and is pushing for you to marry her. She loves your money and unfortunately, that may be all. As soon as your money runs out, your marriage will end. Shes been divorced twice and probably for good reasons. She wont change, What you see is what you get. Don't do it. Count it as a loss and move on.

[Fox342]

I agree with moving on.  I do think she has a finacial problem, and I don't think you can fix it.

I'm not so sure I agree that she ONLY loves your money though.  I don't think all women that spend a lot or are referred to as gold diggers don't necessarily love their partners too. I'm not saying they all do, but I think it's a complicated thing.  I think some women think spending money on them is a way to show you love them and I think they are very mixed up and need help to overcome that. But I do know that there are plenty of women out there that do use men for money and don't love them at all.  

And I do thank God that us men would never resort to such low tactics as gold digging.  

Fox

[Anonymous]

Yeah its tough.