Husband has no concept of money and it's driving me insane!

[Anonymous]

Because it does absolutely no good! He'll either immediately get defensive and won't even let me finish my sentence and say "Give me a break, I'm doing the best I can" even though he's not. Or he'll understand where I'm coming from and swear that he won't purchase anything he doesn't need until we are in a better place financially but then the next day it's like we never had that conversation and he buys a $50 t-shirt with his video game logo on it (which he did yesterday) to go with all the other 50 black t-shirts he has or goes and spends $40 on lunch because he bought for a couple of other guys at work.

He even told me yesterday how he's doing much better with this check as he paid all his bills and still has $350 left. He seems to think all he needs to pay me is his half of the mortgage but not his half of the phone, internet, car insurance, gas, electric, groceries. That $350 should come to me!

[Anonymous]

He has a money problem. Most people do ...... in fact, most of US have which is why we had jacked up credit. You're going to need to talk to him if you want to save your money & marriage. . . . .Even though you've mentioned that you two have had the discussion, I think you may need to voice to him your thoughts like you do with us. He is an adult. Either he wants to change or he doesn't. He should want to save his money & keep you happy. But if it's not going to stop, you are just going to have to deal with paying HIS bills. You are going to keep paying HIS taxes. You are going to keep taking care of HIS daughter. You are going to have to just deal with spending $$ on groceries & be cool with him going out to eat leaving big tips. We here can't change him. People are only going to change if they want to.  If you love him, fix him. If he doesn't want to be fixed, that's fine - just leave. (hugs)

** Btw .... I've been in this kind of relationship before. I actually just left it 11 months ago. The easy part about it was that we weren't married. Even though I loved him, I realized that I can learn to love somebody else. I also realized he was only doing these things because I let him. .... Sure I'd get upset & tell him about himself that I wanted to see changes & improvement, sure he agreed !!! ..... What we begin to allow will always continue....  It will never stop. It will only stop when you do. Good Luck. 

[IOBA]

Maybe it's time for HIS cell phone to stop working (becuase you turned it off.)  Maybe it's time for the utiltiies to be shut off or transferred to his name.

He's not suffering at all with the finances.

It really sounds like he has checked out of the relationship, emotionally, physically, and financially.  Sure, he'll pay half the mortgage - he gets half the equity if you divorce.  Maybe time to buy him out as you close the door behind him and get divorced.  It sounds like you can handle the bills yourself.  Heck, you might see some savings in the uitlities, the cell phone bill, and insurances if he's not longer using them/or on the policies.  

[northface28]

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@IOBA wrote:

So after 12 years, you know it's not getting better.  It's getting worse.  And your personal savings is draining away pretty quickly.  You are "over spending" on average $12,500 a year.  (You arrive with 100k in savings and are down to 25k in savings.  And that's about to drop to 15k in savings.)

What happens if you can't work due to injury or illness?

What happens in retirement?  Will you be eating cat food cuz that is the only thing you can afford?  Will you going without becuase you can't afford to?

Do you own a house?  Do you rent?  Whose name is it in?  Will you have to worry about foreclosure or eviction?

Girl, get a divorce.  He's not changing.  You're stressing.  You're going broke.   Why put yourself through that??  Private message me.

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Now hold on a minute, I dont think its fair to be throwing out the word divorce without gathering all the facts. OP KNEW what she was signing up for. This guy had no concept of money 12 years ago. People are so quick to get married and even quicker to get a divorce, even though you took an oath FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE, seems to me, people only stick around for the "better"'. Seperate and get counseling and exhaust every avenue before considering divorce. Good luck. 

[northface28]

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@Anonymous wrote:

He has a money problem. Most people do ...... in fact, most of US have which is why we had jacked up credit. You're going to need to talk to him if you want to save your money & marriage. . . . .Even though you've mentioned that you two have had the discussion, I think you may need to voice to him your thoughts like you do with us. He is an adult. Either he wants to change or he doesn't. He should want to save his money & keep you happy. But if it's not going to stop, you are just going to have to deal with paying HIS bills. You are going to keep paying HIS taxes. You are going to keep taking care of HIS daughter. You are going to have to just deal with spending $$ on groceries & be cool with him going out to eat leaving big tips. We here can't change him. People are only going to change if they want to.  If you love him, fix him. If he doesn't want to be fixed, that's fine - just leave. (hugs)

** Btw .... I've been in this kind of relationship before. I actually just left it 11 months ago. The easy part about it was that we weren't married. Even though I loved him, I realized that I can learn to love somebody else. I also realized he was only doing these things because I let him. .... Sure I'd get upset & tell him about himself that I wanted to see changes & improvement, sure he agreed !!! ..... What we begin to allow will always continue....  It will never stop. It will only stop when you do. Good Luck. 

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Hes a human being, not a broken appliance. Im sorry, but this statement is totally ridiculous. Whatever happened to accepting people at face value? What you see is what you get, hes been pretty consistent for 12 years. Hes bad with money, and at some point, she was ok with it. If you love him, help him. "Fixing" creates massive resentment, from a male perspective.

[Anonymous]

I wish I had something positive to add. Mostly, you're preaching to the choir here. We're happy to let you vent, especially as it seems you may not have a real life sympatetico support group. I hesitate to write these words, but I think you already know how you're going to resolve this. 

I keep reading people writing that your husband is bad with money. I respectfully have to agree with that, with a qualification. He's actually quite good with money...yours, that is. Spending, planning to spend, wiping out your savings, manipulating you into "saving" him...and your dignity and emotional wellbeing. Love doesn't do that, especially that last part. Why? Face it, from his perspective, what are the consequences? Sure, you'll "get in his face" somewhat, then hours later he's free to go back to spending, wasting, same as the day before. He's using you. You know this and have said so yourself. But do you also realize that he has no incentive NOT to use you? Because you're teaching him to do just that. To use you like a doormat to wipe his dirty feet on. It's a bitter concept to accept when you've devoted 12 years to him, but that's what a good con man (woman) does. Teaches you to accept the lowest standards of care from him/her, all the while grooming you to provide the highest standard of living and care for themselves. Else, he'll get upset, have sleepless nights, pout, stomp around, slam doors, affect a hang-dog look, and basically make you feel like the worst creature on the planet for putting him through all that stress when he's "doing the best he can".

That's a darned good setup for him, financially and emotionally. You ARE his backup plan, his exit strategy, his parent...NOT his equal partner. As I write, I'm mentally going over the steps I'd be taking right now. Like, if you have access to see his bank account, do you also have access to withdraw from it? If only to pay his own monthly expenses like auto insurance, utilities, grocercies and such? Do you have the ability to freeze any loans from his 401k? Is the mortgage in your name alone, his alone, or both your names? (NOT the deed; the mortgage loan, itself?)

Can you change your phone plan to single and drop his phone without an early termination fee? Utilities are usually only in one person's name, but if they're in his name and you're paying the bill, can you stop providing the funds for it? I'm assuming both cars are with the same insurer, but if you can separate yours and remove his auto from your policy. If you have joint bank accounts, you can withdraw your share and redeposit it into a new sole owner account. Or if you're the primary account holder, you can simply have his name removed. If you have joint credit cards or are AU on any of his, establish your own TODAY, then contact the CCs to have yourself removed from his. If you've made him AU on any of your cards, remove him. 

As I said, I was mentally going through an emergency check list. Your thinking may not be there, yet. I understand, after all, it's your oxen that's getting gored. Not mine. 

If you live in a state where there's such a thing as legal separation, that might be a consideration. Overseen by the courts, you're financial responsibilities would be separated roughly equitably while the two of you consider both financial and marital counseling. It would also force your husband to survive on just his own his own. It could be a wake-up call for him to have to pay his own rent, utilities, entertainment, hobbies, restaurant bills, emergencies, auto, insurance, clothing, retirement savings, phone, etc. without benefit of you always covering his shortages.

If you live in a community property state (Texas, for instance), you're legally obligated to his debts, even if they're in his name only. Only a court can disrupt that. And generally speaking, only in a divorce preceding, (not even his death would free you of that).

This needn't be the end of your marriage. That's totally up to the both of agreeing and PROVING THROUGH ACTIONS that you're on the same page. But, in my humble opinion, you need heavy-duty overseeing and assistance from an independent, disinterested third party. Because you've taught your husband that you'll keep being his banker, parent, and doormat, no matter how often you rant otherwise.

I wish you much luck and love and hugs. But you're going downhill fast just by going this alone. Hugs again!

[righthererightnow]

couples financial therapy? Does such a thing exist?

[Turbobuick]

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@righthererightnow wrote:

couples financial therapy? Does such a thing exist?

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This isn't really about money. It's about power and control...  and he has all of it. 

[zerofire]

I cannot understand how you can be such a doormat to him. You enable his mismanagement by letting him have free reign of your funds as well as his. You have access to his bank account? You say he owes you $200-350? If he is so lax on repayment you can help him in repayment as his wife by cutting yourself a check via bill pay on the first pay day after the bills are paid. You need to start controlling this bucking bronco or he will knock you into bankrupcy. Start paying half the bills from his accounts if you have to. If he cannot budget then you budget for him by allocating the money ahead of time. He has a debit card? Set a limit on it so that he cannot do $40 on me per day lunches. Set like $25 or $30 per day. If he tries to charge more it will decline. You are married to him and that means that what is his is yours and the oposite way around. If he wants to go negative in his checking then let him. Best thing that can happen is he gets flagged in Cheksystems and has his account canceled by the bank without option to reopen(unless he knows how to appeal the record which is unlikely). He has no savings? Help him save by forcing a part of his pay to a savings account. Even better if it is money market or a CD. He does not associate what his net gain in profit is relative to what is in his accounts. While normally you have g=i-d in his mind it is g=i+d where g=gain, i=income, and d=debt. See he thinks debt is income and until you force his income to transfer to cover debt faster he will not get it. If you are joint on the CC then close the card. If he is an AU then drop that too. Cut off his loans from you like in the computer. If you do actually do a loan put it in writing along with the repayment plan and an intrest rate. You have earned the right to not be a bank issuing intrest free loans. In the end the quick and easy way is actually divorce especially if he has been recklessly spending your money. In devorce in meny states the seperation by judge is not equal so based on his spending you can easily get access to the rest of the homes equity, portions of the 401k without consideration of the loan against it, and so on. He has money issues and you are just being his personal piggy bank. It is time for you to pick up the whip and let him get lashed by his mismanagement.

[909]

I see two paths forward. 1) You stay with him, he squanders your savings and retirement funds and you live check to check into the future.. 2) You divorce him and rebuild your life without him.

My ex was just like your husband (she ran up $50k in debt twice), and I was a lot like you (enabler) until we divorced 7 years ago. I paid alimony for years but I'm far, far better off today.

If that's too extreme then you need to learn how to set boundaries (although I'm not confident that will help).