@SoCalGardener wrote:
@KangiCosmos wrote:I was under the impression she already ok's you looking at CK. I missread your original post.
Ha ha! With the wordiness of my OP, I'm not surprised it caused confusion!
No, I've encouraged her to get a CK account, but she refused. *IF* I asked her for permission to open it, I know she'd say yes, but I really feel strongly that SHE needs to be the one doing this. It's her credit. It's her life. I want her to take responsibility. I'm happy to HELP her all she wants, hold her hand while she's on her journey, but I won't do the work FOR her. As has been noted in this thread, that wouldn't help anyway!
I have to say, when I was young (and I mean a lot younger than she is) and credit-ignorant, I would've given my eye tooth to have someone hand-hold me through the process of improving my finances. I don't know why she doesn't jump on it, except, as noted, she doesn't want to face facts AND she feels like 'why bother?' since it's so bad anyway.
Maybe use her goals of getting a mortgage and starting a family as an incentive? Explain to her how difficult it will be to achieve any of that (well not start a family, but living comfortably definitely will be difficult) with bad credit.
@OmarGB9 wrote:
@SoCalGardener wrote:
@KangiCosmos wrote:I was under the impression she already ok's you looking at CK. I missread your original post.
Ha ha! With the wordiness of my OP, I'm not surprised it caused confusion!
No, I've encouraged her to get a CK account, but she refused. *IF* I asked her for permission to open it, I know she'd say yes, but I really feel strongly that SHE needs to be the one doing this. It's her credit. It's her life. I want her to take responsibility. I'm happy to HELP her all she wants, hold her hand while she's on her journey, but I won't do the work FOR her. As has been noted in this thread, that wouldn't help anyway!
I have to say, when I was young (and I mean a lot younger than she is) and credit-ignorant, I would've given my eye tooth to have someone hand-hold me through the process of improving my finances. I don't know why she doesn't jump on it, except, as noted, she doesn't want to face facts AND she feels like 'why bother?' since it's so bad anyway.
Maybe use her goals of getting a mortgage and starting a family as an incentive? Explain to her how difficult it will be to achieve any of that (well not start a family, but living comfortably definitely will be difficult) with bad credit.
Excellent idea. Thanks.
She's actually asked me about buying my house, because she loves it. The house, its yard, its neighborhood, etc. But that's impossible for two reasons: it's in my trust to be handed down generationally (my daughter gets it when I die, then her sons, and so on), and, two...there's NO WAY she could afford it! I'm not bragging, just stating facts. My house is worth over $1M; I've had unsolicited offers of up to $1.8M--always from (Mod cut - not here SoCalGardener , please be mindful of/review the TOS and 5 things we don't talk about) agents who want the *property*--not the house--so their clients can raze the entire property and put up an oversized, ridiculous McMansion. That happened directly across the street a few years ago; my old neighborhood, a mile or so away, where I lived in high school, is completely unrecognizeable now, with about 85% of the original, beautiful houses long gone. So even if I were willing to sell the house and not bequeath it to my daughter, there's simply no way in hell my helper could hope to get a mortgage for it. She's never earned more than $40,000. Even if she and a future spouse made a combined $200,000 I don't think they'd qualify. I've never tried crunching numbers [on some site] to figure out the income needed, but it doesn't matter because she'll never be there--nor will I ever sell. But I think your idea is very good and could make a strong impression on her.
@SoCalGardener I would never say never because she could wake up and surprise you. 
It sounds like your more concerned about her future than she is. If she has no savings has she thought about what happens if something were to happen and she lost her job (which sounds like her place to live as well) tomorrow?
And being a live-in helper what bills does she pay herself? If she isn't paying any she may not have any reason to show financial responsability.
@lns1976 wrote:@SoCalGardener I would never say never because she could wake up and surprise you.
It sounds like your more concerned about her future than she is. If she has no savings has she thought about what happens if something were to happen and she lost her job (which sounds like her place to live as well) tomorrow?
And being a live-in helper what bills does she pay herself? If she isn't paying any she may not have any reason to show financial responsability.
There's a very long and complicated story behind all this. Brace yourself! I met her after I moved back home to SoCal; she was a vet tech at my new veterinarian's office. Not only did I like her but, more importantly, my beautiful baby, my little boy (who happened to be a Great Dane) LOVED her. Even though she was the one, later, who gave him his monthly Adequan injections. Fast forward. She left my vet for another one, we lost touch, then bumped into each other in cyberspace. When I was hospitalized (for six months, after almost dying), she took over pet-sitting, and started visiting me [often] in the hospital, which I really appreciated. One thing led to another, and when I was getting close to being released, she was in the process of moving. She had her own apartment, paid her own bills and rent and everything, but they were raising the rent and she needed to move. I had been told I would need around-the-clock care once released--I was bedbound and *completely* helpless (think too weak to even use a bedpan! 
). We tossed around the idea and we agreed that she'd move in (I have a spare bedroom), take care of me, my pets (like cleaning litter boxes and feeding them), and the house (like cleaning and doing laundry), in exchange for free rent.
It worked out great for a long time. But as I became stronger and--finally--mobile again, and could do things myself, like go to the kitchen to get a cup of coffee, her tasks lessened and lessened. She eventually went back to work--for my vet!--as I just didn't need her very much any more. She still does all the physical duties around here, like cooking, doing laundry, scooping the boxes, etc., but long ago slacked off on the housekeeping, which I'm not happy about. And we've had huge arguments about this. (Before I got sick, I'd had maid service for many years for housecleaning, but with a healthy, able-bodied young person living here, there was no reason she couldn't do the cleaning.) But I digress.
She recently graduated from school to be an aesthetician; she's on vacation right now and when she comes back she'll be taking her state boards to get licensed. She did great in school--flew through at the top of her class--and when she's all set up there's no reason she can't make a very nice income. Once she does, I just don't want to see that money evaporate. I know, it does seem like I'm more concerned about her future than she is--but I think that's BECAUSE I've personally found out what happens when you don't have money saved for a rainy day. I found out hard. At 22. That was the first time. Illness caused that financial catastrophe, and has reared its ugly head more times than I can recall. This most recent illness, the one that included six months in the hospital, cost me SIX FIGURES out-of-pocket in medical bills. Thank goodness I had insurance! I can't even imagine the cost without it. But still, six figures. She doesn't have six dollars for an emergency.
She's seen what it's like to be really ill and have your life turned upside down, and she's well aware of the tens of thousands of dollars I spent on medical bills, because she worked with my [out-of-state] daughter after I got home to sort through the MOUNTAIN of bills that had come while I was hospitalized. She helped write out checks and make phone calls to collection agencies, so she saw the amounts, and it had to have an impact on her. But, somehow, it just doesn't sink in. *shrug*
This is a tough situation to gauge without being there; especially with her having just finished school.
Her discretionary income could have been going towards school with the plan to start paying stuff off after she finishes. That could be why she was ignoring it.
She might also feel that with you doing better it's getting close to part ways and she may be concerned about what to do. That concern can cause people to act stupid (I know from experience).
It really sounds like you should sit down and have a heart to heart with her about a few different things, not just finances.
@lns1976 wrote:This is a tough situation to gauge without being there; especially with her having just finished school.
Her discretionary income could have been going towards school with the plan to start paying stuff off after she finishes. That could be why she was ignoring it.
She might also feel that with you doing better it's getting close to part ways and she may be concerned about what to do. That concern can cause people to act stupid (I know from experience).
It really sounds like you should sit down and have a heart to heart with her about a few different things, not just finances.
This is already on my to-do list! 
I've given a lot of thought to my overall situation, how she fits into it, and whether I'd be okay if she moved out now, and I've decided that a heart-to-heart talk is exactly what we need. I am *not* okay with the way she's dropped the ball as far as keeping the house clean goes, and I told her before she left that I'm going to have a deep-cleaning done while she's gone (they're coming Monday), and once she gets back the house MUST be kept in that spotless condition...or else. She knows what the 'or else' is. But, yes, when she's back we're going to hash out a number of topics, and I'd like finances to be one of them.
As you said, it's a very hard situation to gauge--even if you *are* here, like I am! I mean, I know her, I know a lot about her, we're constantly mistaken for mother and daughter, which leads to some hilarious conversations! One time I called my primary doctor's office to ask something, and the nurse said "your daughter called this morning to ask about this and..." I'm sitting here, scratching my head, wondering how my OUT-OF-STATE daughter even *knew* to call and ask about this issue....and then it dawned on me: they're talking about my helper! They've always seen her with me, seen her go in with me when I see the doctor, etc., and assumed she was my daughter. 
Anyway, she knows that she's way behind when it comes to financial...anything. Financial stability, financial status, financial anything. Due to the kind of work she's going to be doing, she'll almost certainly be self-employed, i.e., she may rent space at a spa or a salon, but not be employed by them. I wish that would be different, and her employer would offer a retirement plan and automatic payroll deductions, etc. I know from experience that when you're committed to having money automatically withdrawn from your paychecks, and never even see it, you don't miss it! And it makes saving a lot less painful. But that's not likely to be an option for her, so I'd like to convince her to set something up for herself, where $X right off the top each month goes into a special account, not to be touched. We'll see.
I know when I started this thread it was really aimed at her credit (or lack thereof!), but in reality, it's about her overall financial picture. I want to help, and I feel qualified based on life experience and what I've learned and accomplished, but as has been said, you can lead a horse to water.....
@LawStudentCivilis wrote:OP I can't do anything with anyone who doesn't deal with reality. Sorry. I taught this to myself by the time I graduated undergrad. It makes me sound uncaring, and it's the opposite really. I'm very solution oriented and a fixer. So if anyone comes to me with a problem, I put my head down and get to work.
Depending on what friend I am speaking with, I have to clarify whether they're simply venting or want advice. A lot of people simply want someone's ear. Otherwise, you'll be turning your wheels playing out all these different scenarios on what can be done, and they are still doing their same bs day after day with absolutely no intention on altering their behavior with little to no regard of your efforts and energy spent. It's exhausting taking on the issues of others and not a great way to expend mental energy that will weigh you down physically.
The very fact you took the time to write out what you did shows it has made quite the impact on you. People want a lot of things, or rather like the idea of having certain things. It doesn't mean they will actually do anything about it. My advice is to stop spinning those wheels, as you're spinning yourself into a hole you'll have to find a way to crawl out of.
Or, at the very least start with a baseline, then absolutely let it go. Meaning, "If you really want my help you need to at least do 1), 2) 3), if not - do not complain about it, because you're putting your problems on me with no interest in addressing them."
Thank you for this. It makes a ton of sense.
BTW, you're very similar to me in that I'm also solution-oriented, and I break things down logically and then approach them in a plausible manner.
My helper has good intentions, but she simply lacks the discipline to follow through...on a number of things. For example, she had bariatric surgery a few years ago, lost over 100 pounds...and gained it all back within 3 years. It's the same with credit cards: she gets a crappy card with a $200 or $300 limit, runs it up immediately, then gets stuck in that trap. The next time, she swears it'll be different...but it isn't.
Because I've lived through terrible financial problems--and pulled myself up by the bootstraps--I have real empathy for her and want to see her improve, but you're absolutely right that this is a mental burden--and, for me, with my health issues, a physical burden--that I really don't need. I love your idea--and it sounds very much like how I do things--of laying it out: accomplish X, Y, Z and then we'll keep working. If she can't/won't do that, fine, leave her to her own devices. It's sad, though. I mean, by her age, I owned my first house. *shrug*
Thanks again. You've really hit the nail on the head.
@LawStudentCivilis wrote:@SoCalGardener I'm so glad to hear, I can really empathize with you. I know how you want her to win/achieve so badly, and it can really take up a lot of your mental space. That's why I have to save myself from myself, haha. I do not doubt - in fact I can feel that she is a good person from your description. I am not disputing that, but I really had to teach myself to accept other people's limitations. It can save heart ache and resentment in the long run. It doesn't mean you have to stop being caring and open, it's being firm in your own boundaries. That is a form of self love and care.
It's best to take the approach along the lines of, "Hey, I want to help you and you know I would love to help you - but I won't do all the heavy lifting. You have to show me you're serious." Then proceed to outline the minimum requirements, but until the minimum is met let her know not to discuss any further because it gets you worked up and you have your own health to look after. Good luck OP!
You're the best, @LawStudentCivilis. Thanks!