Discover is not worthy

[Revelate]

I'm going to leave this thread open for now, possibly to the community benefit as there's a discussion to be had here if people can focus on the issue rather than the presentation.

I don't make threats, but to state things simply: calling out consumers in general or individuals in particular won't be tolerated.  

That said, the community behaved itself better than I would've hoped (thank you!), so giving this a second shot.

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Disclaimer: I am a volunteer, non-FICO employee, and my mandate isn't to defend all things FICO, it's to defend the community.

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I'm going to attempt of frame the discussion a little better:

MyFICO is part of the FICO Consumer division, it is almost certainly a different profit center than FICO business (or whatever that division is entitled).  The goal of this website is consumer education, and while we do mandate that people behave appropriately, it's towards individuals and humanity in general rather than towards FICO or banks or others at large.  If you want to have a discussion on the merits of the credit system and how to possibly address it, be our guests.  

Seriously.

The mortgage process sucks: Matt, I don't think anyone disagrees with you on this one, but it's what we have.  Eventually someone will do it better than the current crop of lenders and they may wind up ruling the financial markets, but currently when mortgages are 99% dependant on external organizations (the GSE's, the FHA, USDA / VA programs, etc, lenders only get to roll their own if they're portfolioing the mortgages which hardly anyone is doing with how low interest rates are and with the way reserve requirements are stated) we're stuck on what amounts to some possibly antiquated methods of doing business, and the mortgage market is notoriously consumer unfriendly as a result.

FICO scores are what they are: on the whole this forum does pretty well I think (it's admittedly not perfect, nor is it complete, but I'm not one throw out the good chasing the perfect and right, wrong, or indifferent, I get a slightly larger vote as this isn't a democracy) at educating consumers as to what they are, and how to try to make it work for you rather than stumbling over some of the awkward things in the algorithm; that said, the score is generated by algorithm, it doesn't care that you're a fantastic consumer or one that never pays their debts: data is fed in, measured against a standard based on a vast trove of statistical data and analysis, and out pops the score.  Simple, and absolutely not personal.  Computers don't care how great we are as people.

The hoops one has to go through for a mortgage, or a credit card application, or obtaining an auto loan: completely and utterly different and FICO has zero say there.  None, zip, zero, swabo.  Blame the lenders and the other third parties on that.

Likewise no one is arguing that the banks aren't out to make money: no financial institution is our friend, though debatedly some smaller CU's can approach that ideal but I would suggest end of the day it's about the benjamins, much like the majority of other companies: even being non-profit doesn't mean they're not interested in maximizing their cash flow.  

Anyway back to myFICO (FICO Consumer, not the division that deals with the CRA's and lenders) while I'm not a fan of their pay products at this point, I can't really fault the community here: by and large, it serves the function that it was designed for.

[09Lexie]

I agree with Rev about leaving this thread open BUT it has nothing to do with Discover/cc's. The title is misleading and juvenile, IMO.  

Not sure what the issue is/was but you may continue this discussion in Smorgasboard. 

[mitchblue]

Hi.

[SCF]

I want to come at this from another perspective.   Mortgage lenders and utility companies (heck, even the CRAs) are all bound by rules that protect fair and equal access and prohibit discrimination.  They exist for a good reason, but they can hamstring those same companies from protecting themselves from risk in the same way that a plumber, or department store does.  They have to at least consider, and often provide services to people who no one in their right mind would do business with - people who never pay, destroy their apartment, tear out their utility meter and leave, multiple times over 5-10 years (don't think it happens? It does, and then you're stuck with the legal fees to get that person out of the property, or the lawsuit they filed because you "discriminated" against someone when you asked them to pay their utilities.)

Don't get me wrong, the rules are GOOD, they protect access to critical services and level the playing field, they root out real discrimination (which also does happen).  BUT, they also mean that utilities, mortgage lenders, landlords, have to do everything they can to protect themselves so they can afford to continue in their line of business.  That means that yes, you may have to provide a little more info than you want to establish utilities at your new home.  Would you rather the utility company use that tool to get past due balances paid, or just write them off every 90 days and make EVERYONE pay those bills by increasing their rates to stay in business?

We saw the effects of "no documentation" mortgage loans on our economy, and it was not (and still isn't) pretty.  Has the pendulum gone too far the other way, especially with some lenders? Yes, read the Mortgage forums here, it gets crazy sometimes when people are trying to close loans.

I'm sorry the OP had a bad experience, but there are good reasons for the experience he had.  Are there ways to improve the process? Yes.  Do I want anyone to be able to get a mortgage or utilities without proving that they meet certain basic requirements?  No. because that does no one any good.  This is all awesome stuff to think about, there's a lot of room for improvement in the whole system, but you have to consider that there are reasons why we have the system in the first place other than "to cause consumers frustration."

[Gunnar419]

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@Matt6995 wrote:

Good luck if you ever qualify.

Good to know the MyFico clan is only supportive of the "clique".

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First time in my life I've ever been part of the "in" crowd.

[bdhu2001]

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@j_casteel wrote:

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@Matt6995 wrote:

What happened to the "kiss the MYFico" user hynie?

I have seen the world come crashing down on MyFico when a "peasant" mouthed off.

Why no mod response defending the godly MyFico?

With a reasonable response from any "drinker" I will gladly back off.

Problem is, a man making $70K yr for the past 5 years with a 675-685 mid score should not have to explain why they deposited their paychecks in to their bank account.

No matter what, that is beyond stupid, idiotic, foolish or just plain assinine. Pick your excuse. I dont care if the Fairy God himself said it was ok it is a crock and you making excuses changes nothing. Because "you" tjhink it is ok to submit does not mean I think it is OK to roll over like a dog and submit. Nothing about my 22yr old LO made him qualified to take my loan APP accept the title assigned by his company. It scares me to think you have this wrapped up and have a clue. Even the expert Mortgage people would never admot to what this POS did and tried to do to me.  

Typical MyFico Clique. Shocking but not so much.

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what in the hell are you talking about?

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I think he's saying his LO asked him for information that he felt  was self explanatory and didn't need defending.  Unfortunatelyl, he, like most of us, was asking for a loan upwards of 100K for a mortgage.  Due to the financial and real estate crash, mortgage bankers and LO have to check, triple check and verify  everything. I'm buying a new home and I'm in escrow.  I shudder to think of what they'll ask me; but I am borrowing 400K and if I was loaning out that type of money, I'd want to decrease the risk too.

[j_casteel]

Good luck on your mortgage

[Anonymous]

As this thread might relate to mortgages, I obtained my first mortgage in 1976 and have had several over the years FHA/VA/USDA and so on. Back many years mortgage processing was far more intense and every bit a pain. They used to re-verify every thing within three days of close including employment and changes could cancel the mortgage. In my view had we had the same process in 2007 and stuck to it mortgages would go to those who actually met the underwriting standards and not to everyone who could breathe. We did few favors by granting mortgages to people who could not support the payments and then throwing them out of their homes for failure to meet the loan requirements. We also did no one any favors by trashing their credit. Reserve requirements are necessary to keep the greedy from putting our financial system back in the dump. NOT everyone qualifies for a mortgage. There is not entitlement here. Yes, the lenders are a group of money mongers. There is a rule here: "man who has the gold rules."