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@davidortenn79 wrote:I'm like mad at life now. I mean, you say you'll do anything for your kids. Do I want my kids to have a good life or a terrible life working minimum wage jobs. Me, as the parent, is supposed to jump in front of a bullet for them. So, I want them to have the good life. But, I have 5 kids. Probably estimate $50,000 per kid for college. That's $250k. If I commit to that, then I can forget ever retiring. Wasn't planning on it anyways since social security will probably be gone anyways. Probably will never get enough saved in my 401k to retire anyways. But whatever little chance, if I cosign on all of them and then take over all of their student loans, I'm screwed personally financially. So, do I want to reach older age a little eased with finances or reach old age absolutely stressed about finances and working multiple jobs til I die so my kids can go to school?
I see myself going through a lot of what my parents did. My oldest sister, my dad worked 7 days a week to put her through school. My other older sister, she got a full ride to school, but then messed up her full ride so they paid her college too. When they got to me, they said they were broke so, I took out student loans. They didn't pay a dime of my student loans. I'll admit... I was bitter. My older sisters had no college debt. I carried college debt for 15 years after college.
I don't want to go down the path of paying for the first kids through school. I will go broke and not be able to afford it and then older kids get it and younger kids bitter like I was.
So, the only way to make things fair is screw over all of my kids futures.
I already feel bad because when our oldest had the opportunity to go to France for a school trip, it costs thousands and we saved up for it. now our 2nd oldest we told her we can't afford that big trip for her...
I think the biggest thing to recongize is that the choices aren't:
College
Mininum wage
there's more than enough of the people that go to college who aren't doing better for themselves for it and there's more than enough people who didn't go to college who are doing great
@davidortenn79 wrote:Ok, I feel like I've already screwed up my oldest daughter's college future by I guess not understanding student loans. I guess if I can save 4 of my 5 kids, I guess that's OK? Lol.
So, I have my bachelors degree. I graduated from college in 2006. My oldest got out of high school. We live in Tennessee where they have the 2 year Tennessee promise. But, part of the deal for the 2 years of school is you need to hold a gpa. Well, first semester she messed that up. So, to continue, she had to get student loans. But, to get a student loan, they required us, her parents, to co-sign. My parents never co-signed on my student loans. I doubt they would've. We refused. So, she's now a college drop out one semester in working a minimum wage job. Probably stuck in this lifestyle for a long time.
I am not sure what to do with her and I'm not sure what to do with the rest of my kids. I can't co-sign on all of their student loans. I mean, I just paid off my student loans a year ago or so and that was only because we came across a little extra money. Otherwise, I was planning on making payments on my student loans into retirement. But they're paid off. But, I definitely can't afford to take on 5 student loans if all of my kids go to college. If I co-sign, I could basically be setting myself up to die broke paying student loans for forever.
My parents never got involved in my student loans. They never cosigned. So, what changed? How do kids go to school these days? Do all parents co-sign all of their kids student loans and forgo retirement? As it is, without social security, doubt I'll ever be able to retire anyways. I only have a fraction in a 401k that I'm probably supposed to have at my age for retirement.
If you co-sign on a student loan it will just mean that they come after you if the whole college degree thing doesn't end too well for them and they can't pay the loan back themselves.
Can't file bankruptcy on student loans, usually.
You'll do whatever you want, but consider the student loan people coming after your retirement money.
@davidortenn79 wrote:Yeah, we live in tenessee and we have the Tennessee promise where you're entitled to 2 years of college. but our oldest messed that up in the first semester not keeping her gpa up. so, maybe lesson learned for me that next kid, I will demand to see their grades on the schools website like every other week...
A college freshman is not a "kid." It may help you to refer to your oldest daughter as "my student" (if she's back in school). You are correct that SHE messed up. She's a young woman, not a child, and ought to be more responsible. Perhaps there is an appeal process she can consider if there are extenuating circumstances.
I agree with you about preserving your retirement. Don't cosign any loans. As a personal anecdote, my parents made college life easier on my younger siblings than me (I had to pay everything). I would have preferred we were all treated equally.
If a college is student is over 18 and under 24, the only ways they can be considered "independent" for the sake of federal student aid is if they are married, have a child, in grad school, or are in the military. When I first went to college, my father made way too much money for me to qualify for any need-based financial aid but he also would not pay for my college or support me in any way like housing - I was on my own at 18. So I funded myself on what grants and scholarships I could get and working on the side. That scraped me by just enough to get an associates. Then I went into the military, served 6 years and out with honorable discharge, used GI Bill to pay for rest of Bachelors and part of Masters, and then was able to get my own Grad Plus loans to finish rest to PhD in addition to other scholarships, grants, and assistantship positions in grad school.
Did it take me longer to get the education I wanted? Yes, especially as transfer credits mean more time at new university, plus the years to get my now veteran status. However, where there is a will there is a way - it sounds like your daughter doesn't have the will. That is ok, not everyone needs to go to college. However, if she is not aspiring to better herself and her employment status that could be an issue. Does she live at home with you? Not to get into interpersonal relationships, but I have some house rules for my older kids that they can live rent-free with me as long as they are pursuing some kind of education (college or trade school, etc), but if they are not getting an education and they want to live at home, they need to pay a rent slightly under the going rate (to encourage helping out without being enabling) for similar sized accomodations and utilities.
Hmmm. This is a highly situational topic. Life is rough as it is, and even when you think you've figured things out financially, it's still difficult to maintain. I'll explain what we did.
First and foremost, my credit and finance is the world to me. I defend it fiercy, as it opens the world to many advantages. I taught my children this early, and by tying them as a additional cardholder, they acquired all the benefits of what we had acquired over the years. Both came out with an 800+ credit score at the time they needed it. Now, this isn't the end all, they still need to provide an income to back up loan requirements.
Before I proceed, I should emphasis that federal loans verses private loans, offer both pros and cons. Federal loans offer cheaper rates, but they don't often provide the entire cost of the loan in full, without being divided up among multiple instituations with multiple loan requests. A private loan will offer you the full amount, at a rate that is higher. Less pieces to deal with, and sometimes the repayment amount may not be as significant as all financial entities piled one upon another.
My eldest went to a community college, where we along with her shared the financial costs together to secure what would be two years worth of college, paid in full. It was manageable, and was able to secure 80 credit hours before transferring into a four year. The balance of the four year, we privatized the loan at an interest only rate until graduation, plus the six month delay on top of it. I co-signed for this one because she showed me over multiple years, how disciplined she was with her finances. Upon her four year graduation, we refinanced the loan into a new loan with a reduction of 3% interest, with myself removed as co-signer. By paying the interest payments, this reduced the accumulation of principle. Instead of graduating with a repayment of perhaps 35k-40k, she only owes 25k at a payment of $210 or so per month. She currently holds a vehicle payment of $135 per month, in which she will pay off in full to offset the new school loan, essentually only costing her $75 more per month in cost.
As a background, she was hired in as a financial intern, earning respectable money for the work she does in finance. The balance of what she earns, minus costs, goes into a CD interest bearing account. Annually, her accumulation of deposits, will surpass her student loan balance. By year two or three she should be able to pay in full, but it's the compound effect of the CD laddering that makes holding out worthwhile. Essentially, she's reducing her student loan down to only two percent owed, while still controlling ALL of her money. It provides options especially after year three.
____
My other went through a program that I went through decades before him, only he had the best of all worlds due to it's evolution since then. He started trade school while in high school, as well as early college. Because of this, he barely spent any time in high school in his last two years. Additionally, we acquired a work based program to mix in with this schedule, where he started as an intern in his 11th year. He went to his trade school for a half of day, then co-op worked the other half for a paycheck in a highly respectable field - related to his study. As a senior, he went to college, and he co-op work the other half. This program also provided two years of a paid associates degree in his field. We are now working on the four year program, like we did with our other child.
I may not need to co-sign on a loan with him, but I may. It's going to depend on what the financial institutions say. I believe he has a credit history that satisfies his standing alone, with some financials to support. But to get there, everything has a time and place. You do the best you can with what you know, and you push this knowledge onto your children. I never had this financial education with my parents, I had to learn everything on my own, and walk a path with no guidance. I want my children to have the experience and knowledge that I've accumulated, so they can also replicate it to their children.
So, co-signing on a loan? I say it's situational. How well does your child do with financial obligations? How well have you taught them? What is their temperment in getting things done? What is their drive to succeed? I don't believe you need to place your financial future at risk, but if you feel there is a high chance of success, then plug the numbers and see if it works. In both of my cases, I think it was a grand slam so far. I don't do well with uncertainty, so I plug the numbers. I guide as best as humanly possible, as I want to help ensure results.
I will say, not everyone wants this guidance in life. Some, simply aren't suited for this. I know of a few people that worked in engineering, their children didn't want anything to do with that path. They wanted something else. They fell off the tree for some years, until suddenly, they figured things out later in life. You can only be the guide. It's up to them to accept, deny, or find their own way.
Guess I'll chime in -
I make mid-200s on nothing more then a couple of years in technical school. I'm in the IT field FWIW.
If co-signing was a thing with federal student loans, my wife would have been screwed since she graduated with her bachelor's in 2020.
Our oldest sounds like yours OP. At the end of the day, they're an adult now and you can want/wish/piss/preach until you're blue in the face but she has to WANT it.
I get it, from one dad to another.
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