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4 yrs 6 mos AAoA? 6 mos AoYA?

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Super Contributor

Re: 4 yrs 6 mos AAoA? 6 mos AoYA?


@SouthJamaica wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

@CassieCard wrote:

@SouthJamaica wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:


@SouthJamaica I believe there's a negative reason code for average age of revolving/openended accounts.

 

3. Our friend CassieCard would certainly have seen it if it exists, because she has been monitoring this stuff from when she got her first revolver all by itself, and had a zero average age of revolving accounts.

 


The negative reason code is:

Length of time revolving accounts have been established

12

12

12

Time track

 

If someone is provided that reason statement on a particular score version, they will frequently see the following explanatory text:

 

"FICO® Scores consider the age of a person's oldest revolving account and/or the average age of revolving accounts. Your score was impacted by the relatively low age of your oldest revolving account and/or the average age of your revolving accounts."

 

I wasn't tracking AAoRA from the start, but it was easy to retroactively calculate it and see if there were any correlations with score increases. I haven't found any that could be isolated from other well known aging metrics, such as AoYA.

 

I also have a limited data set, from AAoRA 1mo to AAoRA 1yr 3mo. There could be changes later at 2yr 0mo or 3yr 0mo.


thank you @CassieCard ! Yes I would definitely believe they would start at 2 years or later, but that's some thing we still have to collect data on and find out, a lot of unknown there. I've been requesting data points on it, so I could try to begin to analyze.

 

But @SouthJamaica , there it is my friend. Are you now satisfied that it is in fact a scoring factor?


Yes it is ("and/or" it isn't) Smiley Happy


@SouthJamaica my friend, I'm beginning to believe you would have doubts if Tom Quinn said it , 😉😁😂

Our FICO scoring wisdom, regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.

Negative Reason Codes/Scoring Factors by CassieCard: Link to Reason Code Chart.

ccquest’s awesome workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.


Oct 2020. Oldest/average varies. (Estimates above.)
Real world maximums for the mortgage scores are:
EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.



RIP: (Forgive typos, mobile. Everything said is JMHO.)
In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR? AoYA? Etc...
Message 21 of 35
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Super Contributor

Re: 4 yrs 6 mos AAoA? 6 mos AoYA?


@Birdman7 wrote:

@SouthJamaica wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

@CassieCard wrote:

@SouthJamaica wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:


@SouthJamaica I believe there's a negative reason code for average age of revolving/openended accounts.

 

3. Our friend CassieCard would certainly have seen it if it exists, because she has been monitoring this stuff from when she got her first revolver all by itself, and had a zero average age of revolving accounts.

 


The negative reason code is:

Length of time revolving accounts have been established

12

12

12

Time track

 

If someone is provided that reason statement on a particular score version, they will frequently see the following explanatory text:

 

"FICO® Scores consider the age of a person's oldest revolving account and/or the average age of revolving accounts. Your score was impacted by the relatively low age of your oldest revolving account and/or the average age of your revolving accounts."

 

I wasn't tracking AAoRA from the start, but it was easy to retroactively calculate it and see if there were any correlations with score increases. I haven't found any that could be isolated from other well known aging metrics, such as AoYA.

 

I also have a limited data set, from AAoRA 1mo to AAoRA 1yr 3mo. There could be changes later at 2yr 0mo or 3yr 0mo.


thank you @CassieCard ! Yes I would definitely believe they would start at 2 years or later, but that's some thing we still have to collect data on and find out, a lot of unknown there. I've been requesting data points on it, so I could try to begin to analyze.

 

But @SouthJamaica , there it is my friend. Are you now satisfied that it is in fact a scoring factor?


Yes it is ("and/or" it isn't) Smiley Happy


@SouthJamaica my friend, I'm beginning to believe you would have doubts if Tom Quinn said it , 😉😁😂


If what he said flew in the face of my personal experience, you bet I would.


Total revolving limits 653000 (575000 reporting)

Message 22 of 35
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Super Contributor

Re: 4 yrs 6 mos AAoA? 6 mos AoYA?

OK we have already established the age of the oldest revolving account is a factor. That’s why Cassiecard’s scores are lower than @calyx ‘s, because calyx’s started her file with a card and Cassiecard started her’s a loan. There are other examples.

We currently have a couple people that have possible thresholds for average age of revolving accounts, but obviously we’ve got to get more data points and do confirmation and all that.

Our FICO scoring wisdom, regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.

Negative Reason Codes/Scoring Factors by CassieCard: Link to Reason Code Chart.

ccquest’s awesome workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.


Oct 2020. Oldest/average varies. (Estimates above.)
Real world maximums for the mortgage scores are:
EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.



RIP: (Forgive typos, mobile. Everything said is JMHO.)
In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR? AoYA? Etc...
Message 23 of 35
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Super Contributor

Re: 4 yrs 6 mos AAoA? 6 mos AoYA?

@SouthJamaica But does this fly in the face of your personal experience? You haven’t been tracking it right? so you can’t really say until you go back and retroactively look at all your files right? Have we piqued your interest sufficiently to at least review it and check it out with an open mind?

@RemediosI’d have to check the Primer and search some stuff, but as far as I know they all appear to at least be on month thresholds that are multiples of 6. I remember @K-in-Boston confirmed one at 84 months, and I also think we have them at 60, 66 and 72 months, but I’m not positive that’s just off the top of my head.

Our FICO scoring wisdom, regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.

Negative Reason Codes/Scoring Factors by CassieCard: Link to Reason Code Chart.

ccquest’s awesome workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.


Oct 2020. Oldest/average varies. (Estimates above.)
Real world maximums for the mortgage scores are:
EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.



RIP: (Forgive typos, mobile. Everything said is JMHO.)
In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR? AoYA? Etc...
Message 24 of 35
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Super Contributor

Re: 4 yrs 6 mos AAoA? 6 mos AoYA?


@Birdman7 wrote:

@SouthJamaica But does this fly in the face of your personal experience? You haven’t been tracking it right? so you can’t really say until you go back and retroactively look at all your files right? Have we piqued your interest sufficiently to at least review it and check it out with an open mind?

@RemediosI’d have to check the Primer and search some stuff, but as far as I know they all appear to at least be on month thresholds that are multiples of 6. I remember @K-in-Boston confirmed one at 84 more months, and I also think we have them at 60, 66 and 72 months, but I’m not positive that’s just off the top of my head.


No, I'm satisfied that AoYA, AAoA, AoOA are sufficient metrics.


Total revolving limits 653000 (575000 reporting)

Message 25 of 35
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Valued Contributor

Re: 4 yrs 6 mos AAoA? 6 mos AoYA?


@Remedios wrote:

Out of curiosity, which AAoA thresholds are we "certain" of? 


@Remedios: The data points on that are scattered all over the place, and it's rare to see data at and below the threshold to compare.

 

That question is a very popular one: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aficoforums.myfico.com+aaoa+threshold

If you're looking for a particular threshold, it might be found in that list.

 

The only two I'm reasonably confident about are:

  • AAoA 4yrs: EX 8 +27 points - ( ChemE_Bear, Permalink )
  • AAoA 7yrs: 10-20pt loss going below - ( K-in-Boston, Permalink )

I've personally confirmed an AAoA 1yr 6mo threshold on TU 8, and all mortgage scores went up +6 to +10.

AAoA 1yr 0mo affected TU 8 scores around +4pts, and EX 9 scores around +10pts. Nothing on EQ.

27 FICO Scores + 3 VS3. MTG (Mortgage), AUT (Auto), and BKC (Bankcard) are scores 5,4, and 2 from the top.

Keeper of the Scrolls of ResilienceEQ FICO Resilience Index Score Leaderboard

46 forum members have shared this new credit score. Share yours today!

Message 26 of 35
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Moderator

Re: 4 yrs 6 mos AAoA? 6 mos AoYA?

Thank you both 

Message 27 of 35
Highlighted
Super Contributor

Re: 4 yrs 6 mos AAoA? 6 mos AoYA?


@Remedios wrote:

Out of curiosity, which AAoA thresholds are we "certain" of? 


100% sure on 78 months from personal testing across it multiple times.

Message 28 of 35
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Super Contributor

Re: 4 yrs 6 mos AAoA? 6 mos AoYA?

@RemediosSo it appears 12 months, 18 months, 48 months, 60 months, 66 months, 72 months, 78 months, 84 months, and 90 months. (And I’m sure there are more in between 18 and 48.) Edit: also unconfirmed reports at 24 months, 30 months, and 54 months.

I knew there were more, the 18 month one is in the Primer, I know. There may be an award every 6 months to a year? but the amount is going to vary by scorecard, of course.

 

@Remedios I edited this and added some. I think it's complete now, at least from what we think we know, I'm sure there's more.

Our FICO scoring wisdom, regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.

Negative Reason Codes/Scoring Factors by CassieCard: Link to Reason Code Chart.

ccquest’s awesome workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.


Oct 2020. Oldest/average varies. (Estimates above.)
Real world maximums for the mortgage scores are:
EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.



RIP: (Forgive typos, mobile. Everything said is JMHO.)
In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR? AoYA? Etc...
Message 29 of 35
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Valued Contributor

Re: 4 yrs 6 mos AAoA? 6 mos AoYA?


@Birdman7 wrote:
@RemediosSo it appears 12 months, 18 months, 48 months, 60 months, 66 months, 72 months, 78 months, and 84 months. And I’m sure there are more in between 18 and 48.

I knew there were more, the 18 month one is in the Primer, I know. There may be an award every 6 months to a year? but the amount is going to vary by scorecard, of course.

Here's a report of an EX +30pt jump at 2yr 6mo. No profile change details though. Just something to consider.

 

I forgot to include @BrutalBodyShots 6yr 6mo AAoA threshold confirmation in my 'reasonably confident of' list earlier.

This one seems settled beyond any doubt, because it was done by someone who knows exactly how to test it and what to look for.

 

@Birdman7: I scanned the list of Google search results restricted to this domain only, up to Page 12, and your list looks like everything that's been reported here so far.

 

SouthJamaica still could have found a 4yr 6mo threshold. It certainly fits the pattern, but AoYA 6mos can also award points as well.

 

I will be at AAoA 2yr 0mo on March 1st, 2021, and you can bet that I'll be watching that closely with the same balances reporting as in February 2021. (AoOA 3yr 3mo / AoYA 1yr 1mo / AoORA 2yr 3mo / AAoRA 1yr 8mo / AoYRA 1yr 1mo - so this should be very reliable.)

27 FICO Scores + 3 VS3. MTG (Mortgage), AUT (Auto), and BKC (Bankcard) are scores 5,4, and 2 from the top.

Keeper of the Scrolls of ResilienceEQ FICO Resilience Index Score Leaderboard

46 forum members have shared this new credit score. Share yours today!

Message 30 of 35
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