AU and "too many bank/ national revolving accounts"

[Anonymous]

Received an adverse action notice where one of the primary reasons given was "too many bank /national revolving accts" 

I am an AU on three of my spouse's cards. I was wondering: do AU accounts count toward that FICO reason code (number of revolving accounts)? I don't mind closing a couple of my own accounts with smaller limits, but if AU counts, then it seems like that's the quickest and easiest fix.

At one point, the AU accounts helped with utilization, but that's no longer an issue.

[RSX]

unsure about the AA reason code

but i would say if you dont need the AU anymore, then drop them 

then see if you need to close any of yours - but i doubt that will be necessary

[rostrow416]

It's really just a canned response by a lender.  Having a lot of accounts doesn't actually affect your score by itself.  

[Anonymous]

@rostrow416 I have to think that's the case. It just seemed like a strange reason code -- not the number of accts reporting a balance, just the number of accounts, period. I'm hopeful that if that were the *only* reason, the adverse action wouldn't have happened.

Unfortunately, the other reason code was more understandable. I do have a large, 4-month old installment loan (balance > 95% of original amount). I tried to explain it was cashflow-neutral; it was for a residential solar system that brings our utility bills down to single digits. But the lender wasn't interested. That installment loan is just too large and too new, and they weren't willing to override their algorithm.

I'll probably put new credit apps on hold until next summer, when the loan is 18 months old, and with a lower-balance. 

[Remedios]

Who is the lender?

Some simply prefer customers without too much available credit, so if it's one of those, that's a totally legit reason. 

[Anonymous]

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@rostrow416 wrote:

It's really just a canned response by a lender.  Having a lot of accounts doesn't actually affect your score by itself.  

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@rostrow416 this is incorrect. TU4 is especially sensitive to total number of accounts and Will penalize your score appropriately. 

[rostrow416]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@rostrow416 wrote:

It's really just a canned response by a lender.  Having a lot of accounts doesn't actually affect your score by itself.  

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@rostrow416 this is incorrect. TU4 is especially sensitive to total number of accounts and Will penalize your score appropriately. 

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Oof, wasn't thinking about older versions.

[Revelate]

To add what Birdman stated, I don't know if that only tracks open accounts... vis a vis closing might not actually help for 10 years though AU's come off immediately (other than Amex) and as such might be a thing here where it isn't for me.  It would be interesting if someone with a 3B subscription removed 1 AU a month to see where that breakpoint is on the high end.

AFAIK it's pretty minor I know I can still clear 760 with that reason code so I don't sweat it much.

[iv]

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@Revelate wrote:

To add what Birdman stated, I don't know if that only tracks open accounts... vis a vis closing might not actually help for 10 years though AU's come off immediately (other than Amex) and as such might be a thing here where it isn't for me.  It would be interesting if someone with a 3B subscription removed 1 AU a month to see where that breakpoint is on the high end.

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I've never seen the reason code "Too many bank/national revolving accounts" (reason code 04 on EQ/EX), but I have seen "You have too few or too many credit accounts." listed on MyFICO for TU4.

Datapoints from 2019-2020 that showed the reason code "You have too few or too many credit accounts." on TU4:

2019-02-20 TU4:781  Accounts:20 Open:13 Closed:7

2019-06-06 TU4:772  Accounts:20 Open:13 Closed:7

2019-07-05 TU4:772  Accounts:18 Open:13 Closed:5

2019-11-06 TU4:781  Accounts:18 Open:13 Closed:5

2019-12-07 TU4:773  Accounts:18 Open:13 Closed:5 Inq:1

2020-05-06 TU4:794  Accounts:18 Open:12 Closed:6 Inq:1

And a comparison from further back, that did NOT show "You have too few or too many credit accounts.", and only displayed 3 reason codes total.

2017-05-15 TU4:789 Accounts:17 Open:11 Closed:6 Inq:5 (dedup to 3)

This one also did NOT show "You have too few or too many credit accounts.", but displayed 4 reason codes total, so it may have been pushed off the end.

2017-07-05 TU4:789 Accounts:18 Open:11 Closed:7 Inq:5 (dedup to 3)

Based on that, a reasonable first guess at the TU4 threshold for "too many" accounts is either 18 total accounts, or 12 open accounts. It's unclear if the breakdown of account types (revolving/installment/mortgage/etc) matters for this specific code.

(And either way, the effect is way down in the noise levels...)

[Anonymous]

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@iv wrote:

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@Revelate wrote:

To add what Birdman stated, I don't know if that only tracks open accounts... vis a vis closing might not actually help for 10 years though AU's come off immediately (other than Amex) and as such might be a thing here where it isn't for me.  It would be interesting if someone with a 3B subscription removed 1 AU a month to see where that breakpoint is on the high end.

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I've never seen the reason code "Too many bank/national revolving accounts" (reason code 04 on EQ/EX), but I have seen "You have too few or too many credit accounts." listed on MyFICO for TU4.

Datapoints from 2019-2020 that showed the reason code "You have too few or too many credit accounts." on TU4:

2019-02-20 TU4:781  Accounts:20 Open:13 Closed:7

2019-06-06 TU4:772  Accounts:20 Open:13 Closed:7

2019-07-05 TU4:772  Accounts:18 Open:13 Closed:5

2019-11-06 TU4:781  Accounts:18 Open:13 Closed:5

2019-12-07 TU4:773  Accounts:18 Open:13 Closed:5 Inq:1

2020-05-06 TU4:794  Accounts:18 Open:12 Closed:6 Inq:1

And a comparison from further back, that did NOT show "You have too few or too many credit accounts.", and only displayed 3 reason codes total.

2017-05-15 TU4:789 Accounts:17 Open:11 Closed:6 Inq:5 (dedup to 3)

This one also did NOT show "You have too few or too many credit accounts.", but displayed 4 reason codes total, so it may have been pushed off the end.

2017-07-05 TU4:789 Accounts:18 Open:11 Closed:7 Inq:5 (dedup to 3)

Based on that, a reasonable first guess at the TU4 threshold for "too many" accounts is either 18 total accounts, or 12 open accounts. It's unclear if the breakdown of account types (revolving/installment/mortgage/etc) matters for this specific code.

(And either way, the effect is way down in the noise levels...)

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@iv awesome datapoints as always. I think I'm gonna go with total account number being more likely because I think I remember having that many open ones and not having that code, though my memory could be failing.

Most reports of it I recall have been around 16 to 18, as was mine, so the ones less than 18 probably had a closed account or two = ~18, I would opine, but I could be wrong. 

and no Ive never saw revolving number there on TU4 either. I brought up accounts because the post I was responding to stated accounts, that's code 28 I think?