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Backfire when trying to avoid AU AZ penalty

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Established Contributor

Backfire when trying to avoid AU AZ penalty

I was formerly an AU on a Cap1 card. The card was listed as "Open" on both TU and EQ but under "responsibility," or "relationship" depending on where you look, it was showing "terminated." I figured since the card was still technically listed as open, and showing as part of my total available CL over all accounts according to ACR.com, that it was in fact counting as OPEN, and hurting me with the AZ AU penalty. I decided to experiment with removing it from TU. It cost me -6 pts dropping me from 734 to 728 on my FICO 8. I knew it would be risky as it was hard to tell if it was actually counting as opened or closed, but I figured I could be a guinea pig. The point loss came from this being my oldest reporting account by a few months. RIP, old AU card. Think I'll leave it alone on my EQ, haha. 


FICO 8 10/20: EX 747 EQ 746 TU 732
"Friends don't let friends earn 1% cash back."
19 REPLIES 19
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Super Contributor

Re: Backfire when trying to avoid AU AZ penalty


@Ficoproblems247 wrote:

I was formerly an AU on a Cap1 card. The card was listed as "Open" on both TU and EQ but under "responsibility," or "relationship" depending on where you look, it was showing "terminated." I figured since the card was still technically listed as open, and showing as part of my total available CL over all accounts according to ACR.com, that it was in fact counting as OPEN, and hurting me with the AZ AU penalty. I decided to experiment with removing it from TU. It cost me -6 pts dropping me from 734 to 728 on my FICO 8. I knew it would be risky as it was hard to tell if it was actually counting as opened or closed, but I figured I could be a guinea pig. The point loss came from this being my oldest reporting account by a few months. RIP, old AU card. Think I'll leave it alone on my EQ, haha. 


@Ficoproblems247 Since responsibility was terminated, it was not counting as open, I don't believe, yet, like a closed account, it was contributing to your ages. Removing it probably affected your ages is my guess, as you said. 

You know before and after AAoA and AAoRAs?

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 2 of 20
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Established Contributor

Re: Backfire when trying to avoid AU AZ penalty


@Birdman7 wrote:



You know before and after AAoA and AAoRAs?


I don't, unfortunately. I was going to bite the bullet and pay for MyFICO but I never went for it. I get 7 versions of EX daily plus 2 monthly 3B pulls for free so I just can't bring myself to justify it. I literally have nothing I'm applying for other than a possible small auto loan and taking a HP for my Citi DC next month for a bigger CLI, so I really don't care other than the hobby I have made it. AAoA would have been right around 5.5 years, and AoOA would have been just over 13 years with it, just under 13 years without it for an idea of what kind of thresholds it may have crossed. 


FICO 8 10/20: EX 747 EQ 746 TU 732
"Friends don't let friends earn 1% cash back."
Message 3 of 20
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Super Contributor

Re: Backfire when trying to avoid AU AZ penalty

@Ficoproblems247 You can get all your EQ and TU ages at CK for free.

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 4 of 20
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Super Contributor

Re: Backfire when trying to avoid AU AZ penalty

@Ficoproblems247 I believe there’s a AAoA threshold at 5.5 years, so that could have been it.

 

And you already have your EX.

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 5 of 20
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Established Contributor

Re: Backfire when trying to avoid AU AZ penalty


@Birdman7 wrote:

@Ficoproblems247 I believe there’s a AAoA threshold at 5.5 years, so that could have been it.

 

And you already have your EX.


That would make sense. My profiles are fairly similar. They're all +\- 1 old account or so so my AAoA should be very similar across all 3. CK shows AAoA for open accounts only afaik. I didn't have time to try and add up the months and do the math this morning while I was looking on the site. 


FICO 8 10/20: EX 747 EQ 746 TU 732
"Friends don't let friends earn 1% cash back."
Message 6 of 20
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Super Contributor

Re: Backfire when trying to avoid AU AZ penalty


@Ficoproblems247 wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

@Ficoproblems247 I believe there’s a AAoA threshold at 5.5 years, so that could have been it.

 

And you already have your EX.


That would make sense. My profiles are fairly similar. They're all +\- 1 old account or so so my AAoA should be very similar across all 3. CK shows AAoA for open accounts only afaik. I didn't have time to try and add up the months and do the math this morning while I was looking on the site. 


@Ficoproblems247 That is true you do have to calculate it yourself, what they show is only open accounts. Wasn't trying to give you work, but if you feel like it, when you have time and the curiosity is bugging you, you can check it out. 

and be careful on Experian because they show average age in two places one with and one without authorized user accounts, if you are using their interface rather than doing it manually. 

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 7 of 20
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Valued Contributor

Re: Backfire when trying to avoid AU AZ penalty

Where is the word Open showing on the Capital One trade line? If it is in the account type field the word open has nothing to with wether the account is open or closed. The account type open means the balance in full is due in 30 days. Account type open applies to some AMEX non revolving credit cards.  Also where is the word terminated showing on the credit report is it in the field where you would see Individual, Joint or Authorized user etc?

08/2020 Discover TU FICO 811 8/2020 Citibank Equifax FICO 825
Discover IT Opened 9/1990 CL 19,000, JC Penney Opened 10/2008 CL 4700, US Bank Cash Plus Opened 8/2010 CL 12000, Citibank Double Cash Opened 5/2015 CL 11,100, Chase Freedom Flex Opened 09/2020 CL 10,500
Message 8 of 20
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Established Contributor

Re: Backfire when trying to avoid AU AZ penalty


@Birdman7 wrote:

@Ficoproblems247 wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

@Ficoproblems247 I believe there’s a AAoA threshold at 5.5 years, so that could have been it.

 

And you already have your EX.


That would make sense. My profiles are fairly similar. They're all +\- 1 old account or so so my AAoA should be very similar across all 3. CK shows AAoA for open accounts only afaik. I didn't have time to try and add up the months and do the math this morning while I was looking on the site. 


@Ficoproblems247 That is true you do have to calculate it yourself, what they show is only open accounts. Wasn't trying to give you work, but if you feel like it, when you have time and the curiosity is bugging you, you can check it out. 

and be careful on Experian because they show average age in two places one with and one without authorized user accounts, if you are using their interface rather than doing it manually. 


Alright, teacher, I did my math homework lol. It actually had a larger impact than I thought it would, AAoA went from 6.7y to 5.2y so the 5.5 breakpoint certainly makes sense. I'm not worried about the point loss and kind of expected it to happen. I'm trying to garden until I attempt to add a couple USB cards to my lineup (Cash+ and probably Altitude GO) so I have until June '21 to sit around and wait to be under 1/12. If I don't play around with and mess with my FICO scores in the mean time or do SOMETHING credit wise I'll get too bored. Thank you by the way for always being so super helpful not just to me, but to everyone hanging around the scoring sections. Your knowledge baffles me sometimes! 


FICO 8 10/20: EX 747 EQ 746 TU 732
"Friends don't let friends earn 1% cash back."
Message 9 of 20
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Established Contributor

Re: Backfire when trying to avoid AU AZ penalty


@AndySoCal wrote:

Where is the word Open showing on the Capital One trade line? If it is in the account type field the word open has nothing to with wether the account is open or closed. The account type open means the balance in full is due in 30 days. Account type open applies to some AMEX non revolving credit cards.  Also where is the word terminated showing on the credit report is it in the field where you would see Individual, Joint or Authorized user etc?


This one is a bit longer, more complicated story than I included in this post. I've tried posting about it before but it is too confusing to explain very well because it involves lots of different scenarios so I tried to leave out the juicy details and just focus on the point loss for this post. To try and answer your questions, though, different interfaces refer to it in different ways on different bureaus as 'open' or 'closed.' The reason I was thinking there was a possiblility of it actually COUNTING as open, even though it stopped reporting in 1/2020, is that the CL of the card was being counted toward my total CL as reported on ACR.com. As for where 'terminated' was showing, your assumptions are exactly correct, the field where it would say 'individual, joint, ect.'


FICO 8 10/20: EX 747 EQ 746 TU 732
"Friends don't let friends earn 1% cash back."
Message 10 of 20
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