Do some CC's count more towards your FICO than others

[CreditMagic7]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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@CreditMagic7 wrote:

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@Themanwhocan wrote:

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@CreditMagic7 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
I was declined for an increase on my Wal Mart card recently and one of the reasons was "not enough prime cards". Funny, they didn't care when they approved me. Anyway, while it may not impact your Fico score, it could impact your ability for approvals/ CLI's.

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I used to get some similar details on such denials so what i done was said to self, if they want to see more prime cards, then i'll give them more prime cards.

Maybe more primes than they needed to meet that standard but then i never seen that response again after i did.

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Its not prime cards. Whatever that is supposed to mean. Its:

There are not enough premium bankcard accounts on your credit report.

Which is to say, credit cards from a bank, with a credit limit of $10,000+ as of 1998. We know this because Transunion revealed some details in some reports they had to give to the government back in 1998. So, is the magic value still $10,000 or has it increased? We just don't know. We also don't know how many is "enough".

So yes, some CC count more towards your FICO than others. Also, If you get one from a finance company, those types of places are considered lenders of last resort, so it becomes a negative on your report.

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Broken down by that variable indeed.

Premium = Credit Limit of at least some expected Limit (Whatever the current number which meets lender criteria)

Bankcards = Industry-wide Leading Standard Visa/MC/Amex/Discover

And as indicated steer clear of any Finance Company Accounts which explaination is spot-on.

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As others have mentioned, Fico 08, Fico 09 and Fico mortgage (04 and 98) models do not look at type of revolving credit card in their scoring models nor do the look at credit limits directly in scoring. 

Credit based insurance scoring (CBIS) models DO look at average CC credit limit (LexisNexis, TransUnion and probably Fico - yes Fico is a player in CBIS but not the dominant one). For CBIS an average CL of $10k or more is typically the top scoring category. Also, some CBIS models (LexisNexis) also look at type of card (Bankcard, retail card, gas card, etc...).

Credit card issuers may look at what cards you have (are they 1st, 2nd or 3rd tier) and credit limits on your current cards as part of their decisioning. They may state something related to this in a rejection letter. Nonetheless, other than Fico NextGen, average CL and type of revolver card are not scoring factors. Sure, CL influences utilization, but the scoring factor is utilization.

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@Thomas_Thumb

Regarding gas card (type) in particular, i am curious if there is some relevant information pointing to this.

Links are welcome.

Thanks

[Themanwhocan]

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@CreditMagic7 wrote:

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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@CreditMagic7 wrote:

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@Themanwhocan wrote:

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@CreditMagic7 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
I was declined for an increase on my Wal Mart card recently and one of the reasons was "not enough prime cards". Funny, they didn't care when they approved me. Anyway, while it may not impact your Fico score, it could impact your ability for approvals/ CLI's.

---

I used to get some similar details on such denials so what i done was said to self, if they want to see more prime cards, then i'll give them more prime cards.

Maybe more primes than they needed to meet that standard but then i never seen that response again after i did.

---

Its not prime cards. Whatever that is supposed to mean. Its:

There are not enough premium bankcard accounts on your credit report.

Which is to say, credit cards from a bank, with a credit limit of $10,000+ as of 1998. We know this because Transunion revealed some details in some reports they had to give to the government back in 1998. So, is the magic value still $10,000 or has it increased? We just don't know. We also don't know how many is "enough".

So yes, some CC count more towards your FICO than others. Also, If you get one from a finance company, those types of places are considered lenders of last resort, so it becomes a negative on your report.

---

Broken down by that variable indeed.

Premium = Credit Limit of at least some expected Limit (Whatever the current number which meets lender criteria)

Bankcards = Industry-wide Leading Standard Visa/MC/Amex/Discover

And as indicated steer clear of any Finance Company Accounts which explaination is spot-on.

---

As others have mentioned, Fico 08, Fico 09 and Fico mortgage (04 and 98) models do not look at type of revolving credit card in their scoring models nor do the look at credit limits directly in scoring. 

Credit based insurance scoring (CBIS) models DO look at average CC credit limit (LexisNexis, TransUnion and probably Fico - yes Fico is a player in CBIS but not the dominant one). For CBIS an average CL of $10k or more is typically the top scoring category. Also, some CBIS models (LexisNexis) also look at type of card (Bankcard, retail card, gas card, etc...).

Credit card issuers may look at what cards you have (are they 1st, 2nd or 3rd tier) and credit limits on your current cards as part of their decisioning. They may state something related to this in a rejection letter. Nonetheless, other than Fico NextGen, average CL and type of revolver card are not scoring factors. Sure, CL influences utilization, but the scoring factor is utilization.

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@Thomas_Thumb

Regarding gas card (type) in particular, i am curious if there is some relevant information pointing to this.

Links are welcome.

Thanks

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https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cases/1998/08/d9255pub.id.pdf

Bottom of page 73:

F 38. The source for the Master File “auto expiration date" (CX 1-A), "auto high 123
credit" (CX 1-B), "auto loan type" (CX 1-B), and "auto open date" (CX 1-C), is individual
records in CRONUS. A person is a "driver" (CX 1-E) if the CRONUS record for the person
shows an auto loan or a tradeline with a business that issues gas cards. When the Master File
program examines CRONUS records to determine whether a person has an auto loan, it will not
consider the record if the open date is more than five years old.

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@CreditMagic7 wrote:

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

As others have mentioned, Fico 08, Fico 09 and Fico mortgage (04 and 98) models do not look at type of revolving credit card in their scoring models nor do the look at credit limits directly in scoring. 

Credit based insurance scoring (CBIS) models DO look at average CC credit limit (LexisNexis, TransUnion and probably Fico - yes Fico is a player in CBIS but not the dominant one). For CBIS an average CL of $10k or more is typically the top scoring category. Also, some CBIS models (LexisNexis) also look at type of card (Bankcard, retail card, gas card, etc...).

Credit card issuers may look at what cards you have (are they 1st, 2nd or 3rd tier) and credit limits on your current cards as part of their decisioning. They may state something related to this in a rejection letter. Nonetheless, other than Fico NextGen, average CL and type of revolver card are not scoring factors. Sure, CL influences utilization, but the scoring factor is utilization.

---

@Thomas_Thumb

Regarding gas card (type) in particular, i am curious if there is some relevant information pointing to this.

Links are welcome.

Thanks

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LexisNexis reason statements are rather confusing and at times appear to be 2-faced. See cut & paste examples below.

Here is a link to the full list of reason codes on the LexisNexis web site:

https://consumer-solutions.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2523/~/how-do-i-learn-more-about-sco...

0124

Number of Open Oil Company Accounts Auto - 0 is better 1. What information is this message derived from? The score considers the number of accounts with oil companies that are open. An account is considered open if it has been reported in the last 12 months and has not been reported as closed. 2. How does this affect my insurance risk score? Insurance industry research shows that consumers with limited credit history that utilize oil company cards experience more insurance losses. 3. What can I do to improve this aspect of my score? This component of your score will improve once the account is reported by the creditor as no longer open/active.

0155

Percent of Open Oil Company Accounts to Total Open Accounts Auto - Less than 7% is better 1. What information is this message derived from? This is calculated by summing the number of accounts that are open/active with oil companies divided by the total number of all accounts that are open/active. An account is considered open if it has been reported by the creditor in the past 12 months and has not been reported as closed. Oil Company accounts are those established with Chevron, Texaco, Phillips, etc. 2. How does this affect my insurance risk score? Insurance industry shows that consumers who maintain open/active accounts with oil companies along with other types of open accounts experience more insurance losses. 3. What can I do to improve this aspect of my score? When the account becomes inactive, it will no longer impact your score.

0138

Number of Oil Company Accounts Established Auto - 1 or more is better 1. What information is this message derived from? The score considers accounts you have opened directly with oil companies. An oil company account is an account opened with Chevron, Texaco, Phillips, etc. 2. How does this affect my insurance risk score? Insurance industry research shows that consumers who open an oil card account experience fewer insurance losses. 3. What can I do to improve this aspect of my score? This factor may be an indication that you are responsible in maintaining and servicing your car which would minimize your risk for an auto accident, etc. and thereby less likely to file a claim.

[DIYcredit]

 I found this recently from an article.  

     Anthony Sprauve, spokesman for FICO "The score doesn't see your Sears or Macy's card differently than another credit card"

     “The score is looking at the mix,” Sprauve says. “It's seeing that this person has two types of credit, or this person has three types of credit, or this person has one type. But it's not ranking one type of credit higher than another.”

[CreditDunce]

In FICO 04, National bank credit cards are counted more than credit union credit cards.  There are some old rants here about why does FICO gives more points for a $250 CL First Premier credit card vs a $25,000 CL NFCU credit card.  There were some unhappy MyFico's in those threads.

Back in 2009 when I applied for my last mortgage, one of my TU reason codes was:

015  -  Lack  of  recent  bank  revolving  information

At the time, I had one open CU Visa and several closed bank credit cards.  EX and EQ also had a bank LOC revolving line, but it was closed on TU.  As in I had recent revolving credit history, just not from a national bank.  Even without an open bank credit card, my scores were perfectly fine.   I also read an interview many years ago with a FICO spokesman. He said it was best to have a mix of credit union and bank credit cards. I think as long as you have at least one bank card you are perfectly fine.  While CU credit cards do not count as much for FICO 04 scores, it is a really small factor.  It isn't worth worrying about.  

The more recent FICO models treat all credit cards the same.   I don't know about FICO 98.  My EX-98 scores only listed time revolving accounts established and amounts owed.  

[iv]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

LexisNexis reason statements are rather confusing and at times appear to be 2-faced. See cut & paste examples below.

Here is a link to the full list of reason codes on the LexisNexis web site:

https://consumer-solutions.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2523/~/how-do-i-learn-more-about-sco...

0124

Number of Open Oil Company Accounts Auto - 0 is better 1. What information is this message derived from? The score considers the number of accounts with oil companies that are open. An account is considered open if it has been reported in the last 12 months and has not been reported as closed. 2. How does this affect my insurance risk score? Insurance industry research shows that consumers with limited credit history that utilize oil company cards experience more insurance losses. 3. What can I do to improve this aspect of my score? This component of your score will improve once the account is reported by the creditor as no longer open/active.

0155

Percent of Open Oil Company Accounts to Total Open Accounts Auto - Less than 7% is better 1. What information is this message derived from? This is calculated by summing the number of accounts that are open/active with oil companies divided by the total number of all accounts that are open/active. An account is considered open if it has been reported by the creditor in the past 12 months and has not been reported as closed. Oil Company accounts are those established with Chevron, Texaco, Phillips, etc. 2. How does this affect my insurance risk score? Insurance industry shows that consumers who maintain open/active accounts with oil companies along with other types of open accounts experience more insurance losses. 3. What can I do to improve this aspect of my score? When the account becomes inactive, it will no longer impact your score.

0138

Number of Oil Company Accounts Established Auto - 1 or more is better 1. What information is this message derived from? The score considers accounts you have opened directly with oil companies. An oil company account is an account opened with Chevron, Texaco, Phillips, etc. 2. How does this affect my insurance risk score? Insurance industry research shows that consumers who open an oil card account experience fewer insurance losses. 3. What can I do to improve this aspect of my score? This factor may be an indication that you are responsible in maintaining and servicing your car which would minimize your risk for an auto accident, etc. and thereby less likely to file a claim.

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Ah.. it's the tiny little details that matter here.

Notice the difference between 0124 (Insurance industry research shows that consumers with limited credit history that utilize oil company cards experience more insurance losses) and 0138 (Insurance industry research shows that consumers who open an oil card account experience fewer insurance losses)?

0124 and 0138 can never fire at the same time - in short:

thin file + gas card = bad

thick file + no gas card = bad

Odd? Yes. Confusing? Somewhat.  But not actually self-contradictory.

(I do rather think that the LN score dev team needs a big "Correlation Is Not Causation" poster stuck over their desks, along with "Past correlation does not guarantee future correlation.")