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EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

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Valued Contributor

EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

This is a thread to look at EQ5 for percentage breakpoints for # of accounts with a balance.

 

OK I'm looking at my most recent 3B. Most recent 3B I've got 2/15 revolvers and 3/16 all accounts. EQ5 is 785 with these codes:

 

You've recently been looking for credit.

You opened a new credit account relatively recently.

You have too many credit accounts with balances.

You have a short credit history.

 

So (2/15) 13% is cool on revolvers or its at #5. And 18.75% is too high on all accounts apparently...........................................

 

Immediate prior 3B was 1/15 revolvers and 2/16 all. Score was 785 with these codes:

 

You've recently been looking for credit.

You opened a new credit account relatively recently.

You have too many credit accounts with balances.

You have a short credit history.

 

So 2/16, 12.5% is still throwing too many accounts with balances, crazily. 1/15 (6.6%) has no CC balance language thankfully.......................

 

The 3B prior to that was 3/13 (23%)rev, 4/14 (28%)all at 775 with these:

 

You opened a new credit account relatively recently.

You've recently been looking for credit.

You have too many credit cards and/or open-ended accounts carrying balances.

You have too many credit accounts with balances.

 

So I've got too many CC balances at 23%, but I did not get it at 7% and 13%, unless it was #5. LOL.

 

Line is at 20% for CCs, probably. I will pull a 3B at 3/15 (20%) revolvers and 4/16 (25%) all and see what we get. I also gotta pull a 3B at 0/15, 1/16 to see if I can get the too many accounts with balances code to disappear.

 

So CCs @ 20% and accounts @ 10%?TBC...

 

(Edited to mirror reason code language: "CC"s specifically rather than the broader term "revolver." )

New:




Installment loan reported this month,so technically, I'm at 2 months, but AoYA points were NOT reset. When new CCs hit and it is reset, I'll put the number it is.+1,+2,+2(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Scores updated AUG 4, '19. Since then, 5 HP dings to add; will update again.
29 REPLIES 29
Senior Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes


@Birdman7 wrote:

This is a thread to look at EQ5 for percentage breakpoints for # of accounts with a balance.

 

OK I'm looking at my most recent 3B. Most recent 3B I've got 2/15 revolvers and 3/16 all accounts. EQ5 is 785 with these codes:

 

You've recently been looking for credit.

You opened a new credit account relatively recently.

You have too many credit accounts with balances.

You have a short credit history.

 

So (2/15) 13% is cool on revolvers or its at #5. And 18.75% is too high on all accounts apparently...........................................

 

Immediate prior 3B was 1/15 revolvers and 2/16 all. Score was 785 with these codes:

 

You've recently been looking for credit.

You opened a new credit account relatively recently.

You have too many credit accounts with balances.

You have a short credit history.

 

So 2/16, 12.5% is still throwing too many accounts with balances, crazily. 1/15 (6.6%) has no CC balance language thankfully.......................

 

The 3B prior to that was 3/13 (23%)rev, 4/14 (28%)all at 775 with these:

 

You opened a new credit account relatively recently.

You've recently been looking for credit.

You have too many credit cards and/or open-ended accounts carrying balances.

You have too many credit accounts with balances.

 

So I've got too many CC balances at 23%, but I did not get it at 7% and 13%, unless it was #5. LOL.

 

Line is at 20% for CCs, probably. I will pull a 3B at 3/15 (20%) revolvers and 4/16 (25%) all and see what we get. I also gotta pull a 3B at 0/15, 1/16 to see if I can get the too many accounts with balances code to disappear.

 

So CCs @ 20% and accounts @ 10%?TBC...

 

(Edited to mirror reason code language: "CC"s specifically rather than the broader term "revolver." )


Fico negative reason statements don't say % of accounts with balances - As I recall, they always refer to # of accounts with balances. Testing and "validating" % thresholds for this attribute may be elusive.

 

I will say all profiles with three or more open cards, that report balances on 100% of cards, should expect to see a severe score drop on Classic and Industry enhanced EQ Fico 04 scores relative to AZEO. A drop of 40 to 50 points is common. In contrast, score drop on EQ Fico 8 for all cards reporting might be 10 points or less.

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 2 of 30
Moderator Emeritus

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

I think it only takes 1-2 people with differing numbers of open accounts to confirm it up and those are reason codes that were posted, the semantics of number or percentage bears little when it comes to the algorithm implementation.

It’s been percentage based in FICO 8 for revolvers every time I tested but I should go back and confirm that with my current revolver count, and I sort of doubt that it isn’t elsewhere but that should be something we can determine.

Arguably you almost have to do it that way to account for differing file thicknesses but on early data either way if it is straight count or percentage it looks ugly if you have installment loans.

At least I know TU FICO 04 can be optimized I can’t really help testing EQ FICO 4 as I am top 8 scorecards with a bunch of things wrong on that file... whereas TU has a limited set of reason codes and in the derog scorecards you can optimize them such that they fall off completely.



        
Message 3 of 30
Highlighted
Valued Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

Synch updated and EX reflects. Somehow in a hurry, I glanced at CK and thought EQ had updated, so I grabbed a 1B, but EQ had not been updated yet. Nevertheless, I learned something. Tell me if you've seen these:

 

First, EQ FICO BCE 5 gave these:

 

1. You have not established a long installment credit history.

2. You've recently been looking for credit.

3. You opened a new credit account relatively recently.

4. You have too few or too many revolving and/or open-ended accounts. (15)

 

EQ FICO AU9 and BCE 9 gave:

 

2. You have not established a long revolving and/or open-ended account credit history.

 

(I would note classic 9 had no codes, >800.)

 

Also note all of the above is sourced through MF.

Will update again soon at AZ.
New:




Installment loan reported this month,so technically, I'm at 2 months, but AoYA points were NOT reset. When new CCs hit and it is reset, I'll put the number it is.+1,+2,+2(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Scores updated AUG 4, '19. Since then, 5 HP dings to add; will update again.
Message 4 of 30
Valued Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

Update. Unfortunately I missed AZ and will have to come back to that. However with 3/15 CCs (20%) reporting a balance and 4/16 (25%) accounts reporting a balance, the negative reason codes are thus:

1. You've recently been looking for credit.
2. You opened a new credit account relatively recently.
3. You have too many credit accounts with balances.
4. You have a short credit history.

I think we can conclusively state the line is at 20% for credit cards on EQ5. I state that even though I have a fourth reason code because in prior 3B’s the reason code for too many credit card balances was superior to the reason code for too many accounts with a balance.

Consequently if the code were there, it would rank above that code which does appear. I will now wait for AZ to report again, so we can try to find the line for all accounts.
New:




Installment loan reported this month,so technically, I'm at 2 months, but AoYA points were NOT reset. When new CCs hit and it is reset, I'll put the number it is.+1,+2,+2(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Scores updated AUG 4, '19. Since then, 5 HP dings to add; will update again.
Message 5 of 30
Valued Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

I did forget to add one bit of information. My EQ5 score did not change it remained 785, Despite the reason code popping up. However I did lose four points on EQ8 strangely enough which I have a separate thread on:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/EQ-FICO-8-irregularity/td-p/5640499/jump...
New:




Installment loan reported this month,so technically, I'm at 2 months, but AoYA points were NOT reset. When new CCs hit and it is reset, I'll put the number it is.+1,+2,+2(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Scores updated AUG 4, '19. Since then, 5 HP dings to add; will update again.
Message 6 of 30
Senior Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes


@Birdman7 wrote:
Update. Unfortunately I missed AZ and will have to come back to that. However with 3/15 CCs (20%) reporting a balance and 4/16 (25%) accounts reporting a balance, the negative reason codes are thus:

1. You've recently been looking for credit.
2. You opened a new credit account relatively recently.
3. You have too many credit accounts with balances.
4. You have a short credit history.

I think we can conclusively state the line is at 20% for credit cards on EQ5. I state that even though I have a fourth reason code because in prior 3B’s the reason code for too many credit card balances was superior to the reason code for too many accounts with a balance.

Consequently if the code were there, it would rank above that code which does appear. I will now wait for AZ to report again, so we can try to find the line for all accounts.

I remain unconvinced regarding percentages when it comes to bank/revolving accounts reporting balances. I suspect none of the below (one account with a balance) situations would trigger: "Number of revolving accounts with balances"; although each example is above 20%.

a) 1 of 1 = 100%

b) 1 of 2 = 50%

c) 1 of 3 = 33%

d) 1 of 4 = 25%

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 7 of 30
Moderator Emeritus

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes


@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:
Update. Unfortunately I missed AZ and will have to come back to that. However with 3/15 CCs (20%) reporting a balance and 4/16 (25%) accounts reporting a balance, the negative reason codes are thus:

1. You've recently been looking for credit.
2. You opened a new credit account relatively recently.
3. You have too many credit accounts with balances.
4. You have a short credit history.

I think we can conclusively state the line is at 20% for credit cards on EQ5. I state that even though I have a fourth reason code because in prior 3B’s the reason code for too many credit card balances was superior to the reason code for too many accounts with a balance.

Consequently if the code were there, it would rank above that code which does appear. I will now wait for AZ to report again, so we can try to find the line for all accounts.

I remain unconvinced regarding percentages when it comes to accounts reporting balances. I suspect none of the below (one account with a balance) situations would trigger: "too many accounts with balances"; although each example is above 20%.

a) 1 of 1 = 100%

b) 1 of 2 = 50%

c) 1 of 3 = 33%

d) 1 of 4 = 25%


I'm not 100% convinced either on FICO 04 and earlier but I think the right way to approach it is figure out the breakpoints on a given person's file, have them change their number of open installment loans (which I'm totally on board with on my file) and then check again to see if the numbers match.

 

Another valid test I think might be this: I'm also going to pull a TU report when I next get 2 revolving balances on it and see what TU FICO 4 does, that one's easy for me to test cause the accounts with balances reason code is flatly gone right now and nothing took it's place (60D late scorecard no new accounts penalty and there's 0 inquiries and no CFA on that one)... if it doesn't come back at 2 revolvers (plus my two open installment lines) I'm thinking it's percentage based and should be easy for someone else to sanity check.  God knows I can't rationalize how FICO would've done their analysis without taking consumer norms into account and consumer norms are like 6 open tradelines or less, and probably even less 15 years ago when FICO 04 was released.

 

I can't do the same with EQ FICO 5, 30D late scorecard being top 8 and with CFA and inquiries means there's so many darned reason codes that can show up it just isn't a great test deck, perhaps the worst including the 850 buffer TBH, just can't really isolate the codes.




        
Message 8 of 30
Valued Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes


@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:
Update. Unfortunately I missed AZ and will have to come back to that. However with 3/15 CCs (20%) reporting a balance and 4/16 (25%) accounts reporting a balance, the negative reason codes are thus:

1. You've recently been looking for credit.
2. You opened a new credit account relatively recently.
3. You have too many credit accounts with balances.
4. You have a short credit history.

I think we can conclusively state the line is at 20% for credit cards on EQ5. I state that even though I have a fourth reason code because in prior 3B’s the reason code for too many credit card balances was superior to the reason code for too many accounts with a balance.

Consequently if the code were there, it would rank above that code which does appear. I will now wait for AZ to report again, so we can try to find the line for all accounts.

I remain unconvinced regarding percentages when it comes to accounts reporting balances. I suspect none of the below (one account with a balance) situations would trigger: "too many accounts with balances"; although each example is above 20%.

a) 1 of 1 = 100%

b) 1 of 2 = 50%

c) 1 of 3 = 33%

d) 1 of 4 = 25%


@TT You may be right, but I haven't yet "found" the line for "accounts," that's a separate reason code. I'll be looking for it at AZ (1/16), since I still have it at AZEO (2/16). May be elusive, as you suggested.

This last experiment was just to make the CC reason code disappear, since I missed AZ and was aiming to do that too. I had the CC negative reason code at 23% (3/13), it's now gone at 20% (3/15) (Added revolvers.) Do you feel the same is true for the CC metric?

To be clear, 15 rev, 16 accounts, and where you see a lesser number on EQ, I added revolvers.

New:




Installment loan reported this month,so technically, I'm at 2 months, but AoYA points were NOT reset. When new CCs hit and it is reset, I'll put the number it is.+1,+2,+2(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Scores updated AUG 4, '19. Since then, 5 HP dings to add; will update again.
Message 9 of 30
Valued Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

Are we unsure accounts subsumes CCs? As I've said, I plan a SSL, so that may help. But if I sit on my hands, 1 of those codes will go away soon I think, new account.

Wonder if we can find anyone with the revolver counts TT said to test his theory? @CassieCard can test 1/3!!!!
New:




Installment loan reported this month,so technically, I'm at 2 months, but AoYA points were NOT reset. When new CCs hit and it is reset, I'll put the number it is.+1,+2,+2(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Scores updated AUG 4, '19. Since then, 5 HP dings to add; will update again.
Message 10 of 30
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