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EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

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Senior Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes


@CassieCard wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:
Are we unsure accounts subsumes CCs? As I've said, I plan a SSL, so that may help. But if I sit on my hands, 1 of those codes will go away soon I think, new account.

Wonder if we can find anyone with the revolver counts TT said to test his theory? @CassieCard can test 1/3!!!!

All I have on my file is a closed SSL and 2 open credit cards. [when did the SSL close?]

 

  • I have never seen 'Too many accounts with balances' on TU 4. I have always had both cards reporting the exact same utilization since February. So always 2/2 revolving accounts with balances.
  • EQ 5 and EX 2 have always had 'Too many accounts with balances', even with only 1 card reporting a balance in January. Full report here with reason code text on all 28 FICO scores.

A review of reason codes clearly shows differences in attribute treatment among the CRAs - particularly with the older Classic Fico models. For example:

1) Experian Fico 98 (score 2) has a reason code C/03 for: Too few bankcard revolving accounts. This attribute is not in use (NIU) on Equifax Fico 04 (score 5) or TransUnion Fico 04 (score 4).

2) EX Fico 98 has a reason code D/04 for: "Too many bank or national revolving accounts". EQ also uses this reason code. This attribute is not in use on TU.

3) All three CRAs have a reason code E/05 for: "Too many accounts with balances".

4) Both EX and EQ have a reason code 23 for: "Number of bank or revolving accounts with balances". However, this attribute is NOT IN USE on TU Fico 04.

 

Yes - there are different attributes for "Too many accounts with balances" vs "Number of revolving accounts with balances". Although worded differently, perhaps CassieCard's reason statement may be directed toward revolving accounts  - which is listed as NIU on TU Fico 04. Thus, lack of a statement on TU.

 

Check the full list of reason codes before attempting to generalize Fico behavior based off a subset of CRAs. Refer to the below link for a list pasted in a prior thread. More comprehensive lists are available but, this one is sufficient for the immediate discussion.

 

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/TU-Fico-4-Amount-owed-on-revolving-accts...

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 21 of 30
Moderator Emeritus

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

I think it is a legit theory, but we can’t really state one way or the other.

I think we can establish number of accounts or percentage fairly easily (well assuming installment lines count) and we can get that relatively quickly.

The thin file scorecard’s being without that reason code: seems totally legit cause it would break down at low numbers of accounts anyway but I think Cassie will be in a position to get that TBH; not sure how long she intends to not apply for anything else but I fully expect her to pick up at least 3 or so credit cards in the future and that should move out of the thin file scorecard on the assumption that does exist... if that reason code sneaks in with the same number of balances then not only does that confirm the existence of two distinct scorecards but also that the reason code doesn’t exist in the prior one.

My analysis of it anyway.



        
Message 22 of 30
Valued Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

Absolutely agree, and yep this may be the way to find the breakpoint between thick and thin! 😁

And we know Cassie had too many accounts with a balance with one out of two cards or two out of two cards reporting a balance, so how can it be a number? And that’s with no open loans.







Installment loan reported this month,so technically, I'm at 2 months, but AoYA points were NOT reset. When new CCs hit and it is reset, I'll put the number it is.+1,+2,+2(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Scores updated AUG 4, '19. Since then, 5 HP dings to add; will update again.
Message 23 of 30
Senior Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes


@Revelate wrote:
Entirely possible.

Different scorecards have different reason codes: that’s explicitly known between derogatory and clean scorecards (AOYA metrics however they explicitly are defined as one example): there’s literally no reason that the reason codes have to exist in all top 8 scorecards either.

And sadly I never had really thought that way previously TBH, good call.

^ Yes specific reason codes are almost certainly allocated to various subsets of scorecards - after all a fundamental purpose of segmentation is customizing treatment by subgroup to better characterize risk. Also, there are numerous scoring attributes in Fico that are not in published reason code lists. I think some of these attributes come into play on thin/young profiles allocated to what I call the "C8" scorecard

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 24 of 30
Established Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes


@Revelate wrote:
The thin file scorecard’s being without that reason code: seems totally legit cause it would break down at low numbers of accounts anyway but I think Cassie will be in a position to get that TBH; not sure how long she intends to not apply for anything else but I fully expect her to pick up at least 3 or so credit cards in the future and that should move out of the thin file scorecard on the assumption that does exist... if that reason code sneaks in with the same number of balances then not only does that confirm the existence of two distinct scorecards but also that the reason code doesn’t exist in the prior one.

Here's what I was planning. If you or @Birdman7 see a problem with isolating changes or something, I can change this:

 

  • Apply in February 2020 for AMEX Blue Cash Everyday (I will have no scoreable inquiries anywhere at this point.)
  • If that card shows up in March (not sure about AMEX), AAoA drops to 15 months. AoOA 27 months.
  • Wait 6 months (Aug 2020) to apply for Discover IT Cash Back.
  • If that card shows up in September, AAoA drops to 17 months. AoOA 33 months.

I could test 2->3 open revolving, and then 3->4.

Or 3->4 total accounts, and then 4->5 total accounts, if including the closed SSL.

 

Then I would just let everything age up until my mortgage app sometime in 2022.

 

27 FICO Scores + 3 VS3. MTG (Mortgage), AUT (Auto), and BKC (Bankcard) are scores 5,4, and 2 from the top.

New CRADIS contacts, bearing 1 carom 10. Just think of EQ, TU, and EX as Cylon Basestars.

Message 25 of 30
Moderator Emeritus

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

I don’t see anything wrong with that though Amex is explicitly second statement I believe for reporting a new account.

That is an interesting question you raise regarding closed accounts, I would assume they would for file thickness cause it counts as payment history that patterns can be built from but good thinking Cassie.



        
Message 26 of 30
Highlighted
Valued Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

AMEX BCE was third statement for me.. lol.. I believe closed files count for file thickness as well. The plan sounds great to me, with one tweak you may want to consider in my opinion. I would want you to at least go to five cards because we have found some lines, or at least I have, at 20% so to fully optimize for your mortgage and to exclude that reason code, you may need five, but that may not be true on a thin file.







Installment loan reported this month,so technically, I'm at 2 months, but AoYA points were NOT reset. When new CCs hit and it is reset, I'll put the number it is.+1,+2,+2(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Scores updated AUG 4, '19. Since then, 5 HP dings to add; will update again.
Message 27 of 30
Established Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes


@Birdman7 wrote:
AMEX BCE was third statement for me.. lol

So if I apply for it in February...2 or 3 statements later it shows up on my 3B dated from February 1st?

 

I believe closed files count for file thickness as well. The plan sounds great to me, with one tweak you may want to consider in my opinion. I would want you to at least go to five cards because we have found some lines, or at least I have, at 20% so to fully optimize for your mortgage and to exclude that reason code, you may need five, but that may not be true on a thin file.

Maybe an Amazon Prime Rewards Visa would make sense as the 5th card. My mortgage target year is 2022, so I have enough time to clear out all scoreable inquiries before the app.

27 FICO Scores + 3 VS3. MTG (Mortgage), AUT (Auto), and BKC (Bankcard) are scores 5,4, and 2 from the top.

New CRADIS contacts, bearing 1 carom 10. Just think of EQ, TU, and EX as Cylon Basestars.

Message 28 of 30
Moderator Emeritus

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes


@CassieCard wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:
AMEX BCE was third statement for me.. lol

So if I apply for it in February...2 or 3 statements later it shows up on my 3B dated from February 1st?

 

I believe closed files count for file thickness as well. The plan sounds great to me, with one tweak you may want to consider in my opinion. I would want you to at least go to five cards because we have found some lines, or at least I have, at 20% so to fully optimize for your mortgage and to exclude that reason code, you may need five, but that may not be true on a thin file.

Maybe an Amazon Prime Rewards Visa would make sense as the 5th card. My mortgage target year is 2022, so I have enough time to clear out all scoreable inquiries before the app.


Yeah, the open date will be the month/year that you are approved, not when it actually reports.

 

I'm sure you have a good handle on where your money is going but look at your spend and prioritize your card acquisition on that would be my recommendation.  If you are like me and consumer spending goes to Amazon mostly in my case, Amazon card is a good option but there may be better.

 

Likewise do the math on BCE vs BCP depending on your grocery spend.




        
Message 29 of 30
Valued Contributor

Re: EQ5 # of accts w/ bal AND # of CCs w/ a bal negative reason codes

+1 What Rev said. The good thing is you can convert back-and-forth between the BCE and the BCP. I’m considering doing that.







Installment loan reported this month,so technically, I'm at 2 months, but AoYA points were NOT reset. When new CCs hit and it is reset, I'll put the number it is.+1,+2,+2(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Scores updated AUG 4, '19. Since then, 5 HP dings to add; will update again.
Message 30 of 30
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