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FICO due to no mortgage and credit card only debt

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FICOdawg
Established Member

Re: FICO due to no mortgage and credit card only debt

Appreciate this post as it's truly educational on FICO nuances.    Seems the ulization would be proportional to the debt to credit limit instead of discrete points like 49%.

Message 31 of 95
FICOdawg
Established Member

Re: FICO due to no mortgage and credit card only debt

I thought of all of this.    I expect my CC balances will be paid way down or near zero in 9-10 months so didn't want to mess with retirement accounts.     If paying this off was going to drag out over a few years I would pull principal out of my Roth.      I do a back door Roth at the end of each year with my bonus.   Just don't have the heart to ding my retirement accounts Smiley Happy

Message 32 of 95
xenon3030
Valued Contributor

Re: FICO due to no mortgage and credit card only debt

By keeping balance <10% on each CC and doing AZEO, you may recover a large part of your Fico8.

 

In addition to CC, having an active loan can boost Fico8. Previously, it was possible to get a small loan from Alliant (~$500), pay it down below 10% and keep it active for 5 years. Immediately after opening the loan, you would see a slight loss in Fico8 score, due to opening a new account, but after a few months, you would see a bump in Fico8 score.

 

By doing these two works, possibly you may recover ~50 points or more in Fico8. Anyway, the exact amount depends on your profile.

 

PS: It seems that Alliant stopped doing such loans. But they might be available from other credit unions or small banks.


Fico8: EX~EQ~TU~840 (12 month goal~850).
BOA (CCR, UCR), Chase (CFF, CSP, Amazon, CIC, CIU), US Bank (Cash+, AR, Go, Ralphs), Discover, Citi (CCC, DC, SYW), Amex (BCP, HH, Biz Gold, BBC, BBP), Affinity CR, Cap1(Walmart), Barclays View.
Message 33 of 95
FICOdawg
Established Member

Re: FICO due to no mortgage and credit card only debt

So in my "normal mode" I put all my monthly expenses on my United chase card and pay that each month.  With Ex we magically seemed to always have a balance as she would buy junk but the blance was something could pay off in a month or two and easily manageble.    Of course with me my spending is much less so I'll stick to using the card to get points and pay it off each Month.  Plus, I travel for work and put my expenses on my personal CC so I also capture the miles which more than pays for my vacation flights.      What I need to do is pay these down and ask for a limit increase as my trip expenses for work can be $5-8k or more.      My other card is the Chase Marriott card and that I use when staying at Marriotts for work or vacation travel.    

 

Had both these cards over well over 10 years, I'm a 2 million miler on United and a Lifetime Titatnium with Marriott.   Both cards have annual fees that essentially pay for themselves.     Zero risk of ever being dropped by them.

 

I never paid attention to the score that much.  The trigger for me was on a whim I signed up for Experian after my move and saw it was a 695.   I know when I got my loan for my SUV I had like a 724 as dealer told me and I assume it dropped once the new loan hit.   I had to get ex name off one of  the car we had and didn't have the cash to pay off the car so traded it for a Ford SUV instead of the Benz SUV (which again, ex "had" to have). 

 

It's now obvious that the utilization is heavily weighted so I need to pay off the cards and get the limit increased.    I used to get all kinds of requests to increase my card limits from Chase but never bothered to do it (assumed it was to try to get me to carry higher balances) and now it's bit me in the butt with my FICO score.       

 

My case is different in that I know I'm on a higher earning scale.     My EX spent/wasted a lot of money so once I pay off the CCs next up will be pay off my SUV and only debt I'll have is a boat loan Smiley Happy

 

This is temporary and has been quite educational.     I can see how FICO scoring is a poor mans game of the debt treadmill and keeping score up.     Congress is corporate owned.    That's the only reason something like FICO still exists.     FICO scores being used to rate insurance is also an example of follow the money.     Can only image the brain child who convinced insurance companies to start using it for the SOLE pupose of being able to charge a higher rate and little to no correlation to risk.   

Message 34 of 95
xenon3030
Valued Contributor

Re: FICO due to no mortgage and credit card only debt

Paying off a loan would not help your Fico8, since it results closing the loan account. It might help your financials, if it has a high APR.

 

Eventually, having active loans, one mortgage and one auto-loan, would help to boost Fico8 score.

 

Your Fico8 is running a bit low. It is good to work on it to keep it above +750.


Fico8: EX~EQ~TU~840 (12 month goal~850).
BOA (CCR, UCR), Chase (CFF, CSP, Amazon, CIC, CIU), US Bank (Cash+, AR, Go, Ralphs), Discover, Citi (CCC, DC, SYW), Amex (BCP, HH, Biz Gold, BBC, BBP), Affinity CR, Cap1(Walmart), Barclays View.
Message 35 of 95
NoHardLimits
Established Contributor

Re: FICO due to no mortgage and credit card only debt


@FICOdawg wrote:

I never paid attention to the score that much.  The trigger for me was on a whim I signed up for Experian after my move and saw it was a 695.   I know when I got my loan for my SUV I had like a 724 as dealer told me and I assume it dropped once the new loan hit.  

You may be comparing apples against oranges.  Did the car dealer share the source of your 724 score?  If it was a FICO8 Auto Score, that score has a range of 250-900 instead of the standard FICO8 classic score which has a range of 300-850.  Scores can also vary based upon the bureau pulled (e.g.  Experian score can be different than TransUnion score).

March 2025 Scorecard: Clean, Thick, Mature, New Revolver
FICO8:
FICO9:
VantageScore3:
Inquiries (n/12, n/24):
AAoA: 11 yrs | AoORA: 37 yrs | AoYRA: less than 1 yr | New Accounts: 1/6, 2/12, 3/24 | Util: 1% | DTI: 1%
Message 36 of 95
FICOdawg
Established Member

Re: FICO due to no mortgage and credit card only debt

I'm never going to have a mortgage again Smiley Happy   I'm going on 54 yo and my financial goal is centered around retirement savings.       FICO scores are ultimately a scam to consumers.    I'm not wealthy enough to pay for everything in life cash (my direct boss and his boss are).      Having debt for the purpose of a credit score would be counter productive to my goals.    The fact that FICO  punishes consumers for paying off loans should be a red flag to anyone.     If CC companies didn't offer miles/points I'd only use them for the odd case like during my divorce.

 

Being debt free is a game changer.   I'd rather have a lower credit score and no liabilities.       

 

Message 37 of 95
FICOdawg
Established Member

Re: FICO due to no mortgage and credit card only debt

I have no idea but I asked and he showed me the 724 that the bank with the lowest rate gave me.

Message 38 of 95
Patient957
Frequent Contributor

Re: FICO due to no mortgage and credit card only debt


@FICOdawg wrote:

This is temporary and has been quite educational.     I can see how FICO scoring is a poor mans game of the debt treadmill and keeping score up.  


People with the highest FICO scores tend to be those without a lot of debt. The opposite of the debt treadmill.

 

Folks on the debt treadmill tend to have lower FICO scores, as your own experience bears out.

 


@FICOdawg wrote:

Congress is corporate owned.    That's the only reason something like FICO still exists.     FICO scores being used to rate insurance is also an example of follow the money.     Can only image the brain child who convinced insurance companies to start using it for the SOLE pupose of being able to charge a higher rate and little to no correlation to risk.   


FICO scoring is used because it's predictive, or to use your words, correlated to risk. If it weren't, companies wouldn't pay big money for it.  Again, the opposite of what you're saying.

 

For once, we can't blame the politicians. If you want to blame someone, blame the mathematicians. Smiley Wink

Message 39 of 95
FICOdawg
Established Member

Re: FICO due to no mortgage and credit card only debt

All this is an intellectual exercise as FICO isn't going anywhere.      A quick search and you'll find a treasure trove of FICO paying lobbyists.   Let's dispense of the idea that FICO is purely statistical modeling.  FICO is regulated by the FCRA.    They absolutely work to put a foot on the policy scale.    


Let's start with my $40k in CC debt.      FICO heavily weights credit card debt/utilization.    However, two consumers can have entirely different ability to pay it off.    Yet, that's not considered.     In my case, using the CC during the final part of my divorce made the best option for me.  

 

At my income level, my $40k in CC debt is not that same as another consumer at a lower income and more loans to service.   However, those two consumers get the same credit scoring penalty.         

 

Just basic assessement of my profile of income and assets and assigning a score of 695 (It's 700 as of today) is assinine.       No reasonable person would look at my finances and say I'm anything but an excellent credit risk.      I'm not quite at the point of needing no financing but not to far from it over the next 2-3 years.     

 

I'm playing the FICO game simply to ensure I get great insurance rates and if I want to open another CC so I can optimize utlization.    I'll likely pay off my current vehicle and never have a car loan again.   Frankly, FICO isn't that applicable to me anymore.     

 

FICO is a business. They help lenders make MORE money.     They still lend to people with 650 credit scores ( and lower).   Think about that.....

Message 40 of 95
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