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FICO scores with 1 vs 2 cards out of 9 with balance

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Re: FICO scores with 1 vs 2 cards out of 9 with balance

Thank you for the information!

 

What would be interesting for me to see at any rate is if you got the same result with a small balance rather than a 71% benchmark.  I think you probably would based on my data, but on my file, I don't lose points for going from 1 -> 2 balances apparently.

 

Just on the surface:

 

Me: 2/9

You: 2/7

 

An interesting point was brought up earlier, there could be a breakpoint at 25%.  Whenever I close on a mortgage I think I'm going to add a couple of revolvers, ugh I would need to get to what, 12 or 13 to make a testing difference on that theory?  Durr that may be two iterations, though I may try to sort the PLOC now in which case I could get to 3.  Got nothing but time post-mortgage for the test though, circa 5 years minimum and that's if everything goes RIGHT in my life (never happens haha).

 

Or hrm, I can open up a secured SDFCU card for like $250, that may be all sorts of useful for testing purposes... having a small line to test single card balance utilization is even easier than loading up my 1K Freedom.

 




        
Message 11 of 52
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Moderator Emeritus

Re: FICO scores with 1 vs 2 cards out of 9 with balance

Chase hit zero.

 

2 balances -> 1 balance:  no change on FICO 8 TU / EQ.

 

Least it holds for my file Smiley Happy




        
Message 12 of 52
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Valued Contributor

Re: FICO scores with 1 vs 2 cards out of 9 with balance

About 5 months ago I had my scores all nice and groomed. One card was reporting 5% of its CL all others $0. Then I screwed up and bought a $2.99 app on my cell phone and forgot it was charged to one of my $0 cards.

 

The card reported a $3 balance and I lost 3 points. So for me, $3 on a second card equals 3 points!

 

That's why I tested this time with a relatively high balance card reporting. I wanted to see what worse case scenario would do. So I had one card at 5% of its CL and the "test" card reporting at 71% of its CL (Still 5% total UTI) and I lost 6 points.


Starting Score: EQ 653 6/21/12
Current Score: EQ 817 3/10/20 - EX 820 3/13/20 - TU 825 3/03/20
Message 13 of 52
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Moderator Emeritus

Re: FICO scores with 1 vs 2 cards out of 9 with balance


@jamie123 wrote:

About 5 months ago I had my scores all nice and groomed. One card was reporting 5% of its CL all others $0. Then I screwed up and bought a $2.99 app on my cell phone and forgot it was charged to one of my $0 cards.

 

The card reported a $3 balance and I lost 3 points. So for me, $3 on a second card equals 3 points!

 

That's why I tested this time with a relatively high balance card reporting. I wanted to see what worse case scenario would do. So I had one card at 5% of its CL and the "test" card reporting at 71% of its CL (Still 5% total UTI) and I lost 6 points.


Hmm, didn't see a breakpoint at 73% when I tested it once, but I'm really leaning towards getting the silly SDFCU secured minimum limit card and see if I can try to isolate individual balance scoring with an otherwise pristine report.

 

Depending how much furniture I wind up financing Cat Tongue

 

Wonder what it says when you get an offer accepted on a new place, and you're looking around your current domicile thinking: I'm not moving any of this junk.  Part of it I know I bought as throw away junk several years ago but realized when I was doing a quote for home owners insurance, if I'm not counting it for dollar value in the total loss scenario, probably not worth keeping heh.




        
Message 14 of 52
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Valued Contributor

Re: FICO scores with 1 vs 2 cards out of 9 with balance

I paid the high balance card to $0 the other day and EQ picked it up today.

 

I have my 6 points back!

 

My EQ is back up to 705 from 699.


Starting Score: EQ 653 6/21/12
Current Score: EQ 817 3/10/20 - EX 820 3/13/20 - TU 825 3/03/20
Message 15 of 52
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Moderator Emeritus

Re: FICO scores with 1 vs 2 cards out of 9 with balance

Some dumb math for breakpoints which may not hold but what the hell it's a theory:

 

Have no idea if FICO would round up or down on this one, just truncating at two decimal places.

 

Revelate: 2/9 no change 3/9 for drop  = 22.22% < X < 33.33%

Jamie: 1/7 for no change 2/7 for drop = 14.28% < X < 28.57%

 

Looks like may be a rational assumption of a breakpoint at 25% on the theory X is bounded 22.22% < X < 28.57% ?  Would note that it should follow the data that FICO has collected, but division by 4 is an incredibly cheap operation for a computer to perform.

 

Decided my mini-spree looks like this: Amex business gold, Cap One venture, opening an account at SSFCU so I only add one line on my personal report and set myself up for another after a bit of testing at 10 cards, theory is I will still have 2/10 no change and 3/10 drop.

 

After which I will open a SSFCU card I want, still expect 2/11 no change 3/11 drop.  Finally the SDFCU secured card that is purely for utilization testing which where it gets interesting at 12 cards and is there a drop at 3 or not?  If still inconclusive I will get my PLOC at that point from Penfed or whoever for 13 revolving tradelines where I would really think it would be 3/13 no change and 4/13 drop.... sounds like my credit plan for the remainder of this year before gardening again.  May reverse the SDFCU / SSFCU cards, sort of on the fence on that one and likely depends how much love Cap One shows me (or lack thereof).  May replace one with a balance carrying card while interest rates are still low, unsure, probably should take a flier on a fixed rate card sometime hah.

 

Sound reasonable or is there a flaw in my thinking for testing this?  Course this means I cannot close my Wally card yet Cat Frustrated

 

Note: this is for a dirty file, I can't reconcile Jager's data with mine with his at that point clean sheet.  Mind checking again Jager now with the foreclosure? Smiley Happy  Oh wait a second, how many revolving trades do you have Jager?  I should've asked that way earlier haha.

 

ETA: or maybe I add two accounts on the second round and close the Wally, but I wanted a decent data testing point on the store card closure and I really need my scores to be flat for the CFA test which means sometime next year before my collection falls off.




        
Message 16 of 52
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Re: FICO scores with 1 vs 2 cards out of 9 with balance


@Revelate wrote:

I got a little sloppy with my balances and accidentally had a second report (while in mortgage process, for shame I know) and decided to spend $41 in the name of "science" since we've been debating this for longer than I've been on the forums at any rate.

 

5/24: 1/9 cards with balance.  $43/1000 individual balance, $43/34600 aggregate balance (and a Zync in a Pear Tree)

 

5/29: 2/9 cards with balance.  $43/1000 and $86/8400 individual balances, $129/34600 aggregate balance (same Zync at $0 discounted from limit)

 

Data speaks for itself, am a little surprised personally by the findings but if we trust the 3B scores as reference, well... I'd seen this played out on FICO 8 with my balance fun over time though not rigorously tracked, but here's two point in time snapshots over the entire suite of scores we have access to on MF.

 

Disclosure: I have a dirty file still, clean file may not exhibit same behavior on the anecdotal evidence that every little hiccup counts for comparitively more if you're gold-plated.  Also the scores are listed as they are in the MF additional scores interface, if a translation is needed to the bureau name for it, that can be provided.

 

Score24-May29-May
EQ 8690690
EQ 5700700
EQ Auto 8701701
EQ Auto 5697697
EQ Bank 8705705
EQ Bank 5721721
   
TU 8706706
TU 4731731
TU Auto 8728728
TU Auto 4746746
TU Bank 8723723
TU Bank 4745740
   
EX 8712712
EX 2725725
EX Auto 8717717
EX Auto 2741741
EX Bank 8726726
EX Bank 3697697
EX Bank 2739739

This is exactly WHY Im so crazy about my 1 card/1% bal reporting.  With a dirty file, not much of a change, as small as it is, but when you have a dirty file like we do Rev, I need every point possible, LOL... Thank you for sharing your stats though!! Smiley Happy


My rebuild worked for me, but won't necessarily work for you!
BK7 D/C- 08/2013
Message 17 of 52
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Moderator Emerita

Re: FICO scores with 1 vs 2 cards out of 9 with balance


@Revelate wrote:

@jamie123 wrote:

About 5 months ago I had my scores all nice and groomed. One card was reporting 5% of its CL all others $0. Then I screwed up and bought a $2.99 app on my cell phone and forgot it was charged to one of my $0 cards.

 

The card reported a $3 balance and I lost 3 points. So for me, $3 on a second card equals 3 points!

 

That's why I tested this time with a relatively high balance card reporting. I wanted to see what worse case scenario would do. So I had one card at 5% of its CL and the "test" card reporting at 71% of its CL (Still 5% total UTI) and I lost 6 points.


Hmm, didn't see a breakpoint at 73% when I tested it once, but I'm really leaning towards getting the silly SDFCU secured minimum limit card and see if I can try to isolate individual balance scoring with an otherwise pristine report.

 

Depending how much furniture I wind up financing Cat Tongue

 

Wonder what it says when you get an offer accepted on a new place, and you're looking around your current domicile thinking: I'm not moving any of this junk.  Part of it I know I bought as throw away junk several years ago but realized when I was doing a quote for home owners insurance, if I'm not counting it for dollar value in the total loss scenario, probably not worth keeping heh.


I am laughing....I moved in Feb 2015 and did the exact same thing.  Looked around and said - Hey, I'll just get some new furniture rather than moving the old stuff! That's how $16k ended up on my cc's for a few months (Mar was first month, will be paid off by Aug) but I tanked my scores....Smiley Embarassed

 

And FWIW it doesn't save as much time as you think it will save. But it is nice to have a new place with new decor Smiley Happy

I'm sure you will love getting yours together...

Message 18 of 52
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Moderator Emeritus

Re: FICO scores with 1 vs 2 cards out of 9 with balance


@StartingOver10 wrote:

@Revelate wrote:

@jamie123 wrote:

About 5 months ago I had my scores all nice and groomed. One card was reporting 5% of its CL all others $0. Then I screwed up and bought a $2.99 app on my cell phone and forgot it was charged to one of my $0 cards.

 

The card reported a $3 balance and I lost 3 points. So for me, $3 on a second card equals 3 points!

 

That's why I tested this time with a relatively high balance card reporting. I wanted to see what worse case scenario would do. So I had one card at 5% of its CL and the "test" card reporting at 71% of its CL (Still 5% total UTI) and I lost 6 points.


Hmm, didn't see a breakpoint at 73% when I tested it once, but I'm really leaning towards getting the silly SDFCU secured minimum limit card and see if I can try to isolate individual balance scoring with an otherwise pristine report.

 

Depending how much furniture I wind up financing Cat Tongue

 

Wonder what it says when you get an offer accepted on a new place, and you're looking around your current domicile thinking: I'm not moving any of this junk.  Part of it I know I bought as throw away junk several years ago but realized when I was doing a quote for home owners insurance, if I'm not counting it for dollar value in the total loss scenario, probably not worth keeping heh.


I am laughing....I moved in Feb 2015 and did the exact same thing.  Looked around and said - Hey, I'll just get some new furniture rather than moving the old stuff! That's how $16k ended up on my cc's for a few months (Mar was first month, will be paid off by Aug) but I tanked my scores....Smiley Embarassed

 

And FWIW it doesn't save as much time as you think it will save. But it is nice to have a new place with new decor Smiley Happy

I'm sure you will love getting yours together...


I wasn't worried about the time so much (I really haven't got much, I'm usually pretty good at cleaning out detritus from my life), was just more if I don't care about it, I should buy something I do care about.  I have been living in the bottom floor of a dark, rare does it get natural sunlight apartment.  Just realized looking around when doing the homeowners insurance I fell into building around a couple of random furniture pieces I picked up and there's a lot of dark tones everywhere... and I absolutely don't need to take that with me.  Actually it would feel wrong in the new place.

 

One of the things I really liked in the condo was top floor and a lot of natural light, so I'm thinking unless I bought it to keep forever (bed, entertainment pieces) just give it away to the other apartment denizens and fill the new place with lighter "happier" tones.  I don't even need my portable air conditioner hah, the other side of the hill by the Pacific doesn't get the temperature spikes nearly as much and I doubt the new place holds heat appreciably.

 

So yeah, new place after 10 years, psychologically it's worth spending the money for a clean start.

 

Really isn't that much, I need a table and chairs, a couch, and something to sit the TV on and entertainment stuff into.  Realistically that's maybe like 10K max if I go 1st/2nd tier on the high but-not-absurd end and spending more than that... I'm doing something really wrong, plus if I pick well this goes under the keep forever or until it breaks category I buy the stuff I care about under under typical amortization-style math.  Everything else, pictures, painting knockoffs, plants, can be added later, and figure if I ever do get to the theoretical wife she'll almost assuredly have a much stronger opinion than mine and I don't really care about decor so she can do it all other than I get a veto of a depressing color tone Smiley Happy.

 

It'll also be an interesting test, other than my installment loans I've never been in debt previously, not once, anywhere in my life.  Floating some credit card debt on Cap 1 / Discover 0% promos, I sort of want to see how I react to it emotionally.  Rationally I know it makes sense but hard to say how I'll feel about it seeing the balances and not PIFing them off.  Better to know that now, even if it's not 1:1 to the conserving cash because of financial stress scenario, it is a change which wouldn't want to be surprised by if the fecal matter ever does hit the air circulation device.

 

 




        
Message 19 of 52
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Moderator Emeritus

Re: FICO scores with 1 vs 2 cards out of 9 with balance


@Revelate wrote:

Some dumb math for breakpoints which may not hold but what the hell it's a theory:

 

Have no idea if FICO would round up or down on this one, just truncating at two decimal places.

 

Revelate: 2/9 no change 3/9 for drop  = 22.22% < X < 33.33%

Jamie: 1/7 for no change 2/7 for drop = 14.28% < X < 28.57%

 

Looks like may be a rational assumption of a breakpoint at 25% on the theory X is bounded 22.22% < X < 28.57% ?  Would note that it should follow the data that FICO has collected, but division by 4 is an incredibly cheap operation for a computer to perform.

 

Decided my mini-spree looks like this: Amex business gold, Cap One venture, opening an account at SSFCU so I only add one line on my personal report and set myself up for another after a bit of testing at 10 cards, theory is I will still have 2/10 no change and 3/10 drop.

 

After which I will open a SSFCU card I want, still expect 2/11 no change 3/11 drop.  Finally the SDFCU secured card that is purely for utilization testing which where it gets interesting at 12 cards and is there a drop at 3 or not?  If still inconclusive I will get my PLOC at that point from Penfed or whoever for 13 revolving tradelines where I would really think it would be 3/13 no change and 4/13 drop.... sounds like my credit plan for the remainder of this year before gardening again.  May reverse the SDFCU / SSFCU cards, sort of on the fence on that one and likely depends how much love Cap One shows me (or lack thereof).  May replace one with a balance carrying card while interest rates are still low, unsure, probably should take a flier on a fixed rate card sometime hah.

 

Sound reasonable or is there a flaw in my thinking for testing this?  Course this means I cannot close my Wally card yet Cat Frustrated

 

Note: this is for a dirty file, I can't reconcile Jager's data with mine with his at that point clean sheet.  Mind checking again Jager now with the foreclosure? Smiley Happy  Oh wait a second, how many revolving trades do you have Jager?  I should've asked that way earlier haha.

 

ETA: or maybe I add two accounts on the second round and close the Wally, but I wanted a decent data testing point on the store card closure and I really need my scores to be flat for the CFA test which means sometime next year before my collection falls off.


While the test plan I think was reasonble it didn't meet my financial needs for the rest of my life which admittedly is way more important.

 

So going to do the calculation a little differently: rather than add 1 at a time, I'm going to pick up 3 cards in a post-mortgage spree which gets me what I need on the financial side and gets me to 12 revolving tradelines.

 

At that point will be using FICO 8 tracking for 1 vs 2 vs 3 reolving tradelines reporting a balance and see if the critical 2->3 has changed over my current 1->2.  If it does, and suddenly I don't get a change till 3-> 4 I can then close my Wally card which I want to do anyway and if it doesn't I'm going to make the reasonable assertion that it wouldn't change at either at 10 or 11 revolving trades.

 

TBH I consider this one the least important of the FICO reindeer games I'm playing because it really doesn't have any meaningful impact as it still appears that 1 revolver reporting a balance is equal or better than all other states which makes this pretty irrelevant other than curiosity about the algorithm implementation.  Open retail card and installment utilization both have meaningful FICO score impacts as such they need to take priority as well and this gets me back to the stable credit report needed for a good data point.




        
Message 20 of 52
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