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I know charge cards don't affect utilization, but does the total balance owed still have a large affect on your score? My scores dropped anywhere between 30-78 points from allowing my gold card to post with a $2500 balance. Even though my util is still 1%?
the only other thing that changed was my AoOA hit 7 1/2 years. So maybe I was moved to a different score card?
Nope charge cards should not effect utilization at all, and are they vantage scores ? Only thing I could see is the accounts with balances but it wouldn't be that much of a drop . But if it's vantage scores there's no point of discussion.
also just to clarify, I know charge cards don't affect utilization that wasn't my question,
when you click on amount of debit it's split into sections
utilization ratio
accts with balances
Total debt
my question was, even though utilization was not affected, does the "total amount owed" portion also affect your score? I know some of the older fico models used high balance as your credit limit meaning my Amex would have essentially been maxed out since this is the largest balance I've ever posted. But fico 8 doesn't do this as far as I know.
And I also know vantage has a section for amount owed and your score is penalized for both high utilitization and also penalized again for high debt amounts/low available credit. I was wondering if maybe fico had something similar to this. But it doesn't appear they do.
which leads me back to square 1, I had a 78 point drop, and no discernible reason why. The only lead I have now is the fact that my age of oldest again went from 7 years 5 months to 7 years 6 months. Maybe 7 1/2 years is a threshold for a different score card.
@Cblough93 wrote:also just to clarify, I know charge cards don't affect utilization that wasn't my question,
when you click on amount of debit it's split into sections
utilization ratio
accts with balances
Total debt
my question was, even though utilization was not affected, does the "total amount owed" portion also affect your score? I know some of the older fico models used high balance as your credit limit meaning my Amex would have essentially been maxed out since this is the largest balance I've ever posted. But fico 8 doesn't do this as far as I know.
And I also know vantage has a section for amount owed and your score is penalized for both high utilitization and also penalized again for high debt amounts/low available credit. I was wondering if maybe fico had something similar to this. But it doesn't appear they do.
which leads me back to square 1, I had a 78 point drop, and no discernible reason why. The only lead I have now is the fact that my age of oldest again went from 7 years 5 months to 7 years 6 months. Maybe 7 1/2 years is a threshold for a different score card.
Unpaid debt is 30% of your score, number of accounts with balances... both of which you can easily remedy.
What's your DTI%
@Cblough93 wrote:also just to clarify, I know charge cards don't affect utilization that wasn't my question,
when you click on amount of debit it's split into sections
utilization ratio
accts with balances
Total debt
my question was, even though utilization was not affected, does the "total amount owed" portion also affect your score? I know some of the older fico models used high balance as your credit limit meaning my Amex would have essentially been maxed out since this is the largest balance I've ever posted. But fico 8 doesn't do this as far as I know.
And I also know vantage has a section for amount owed and your score is penalized for both high utilitization and also penalized again for high debt amounts/low available credit.
VantageScore penalizes for low available credit. If your total balance is high, your available credit is reduced accordingly.
It is well known that Fico score algorithms look at total balance as a scoring factor. A high AMEX charge card balance would be included in total (aggregate) debt (amount owed) but not aggregate revolving utilization. The total debt metric carries less weight than utilization. The high reported AMEX balance should not impact score more than 10 points (is amex a new account?). Having an additional card report a balance could drop Fico 8 score 5-10 points depending on if it takes you to 100% of cards with balances.
Fico EX score 2 used for mortgages does look at charge card (current balance)/(high balance) as card utilization. In your case CB/HB is likely 100%. That could drop EX score 2 only - perhaps as much as 30 points on thin files. This psuedo utilization is not relevent to any other Fico 3B score.
Many posters have presented data suggesting 90 months is an AAoA threshold. However, crossing above that threshold positively impacts score 0-7 points. AAoA is NOT a scorecard factor, AoOA is.
In summary, none of the data you have provided accounts for the point loss you mention. Something else is also at play.
That's exactly why I'm so confused. I never expected my score to drop that much from an Amex balance especially because my aggregate util is 1% and my individual utilizations are 1%, 0%, and N/A for the Amex.
yes, the Amex is just over 3 months old. So pretty new.
to clarify, exp dropped 30 points and TransUnion dropped 78. I do have a very low total credit limit, about 6 grand between my cards. So I have about $2500 total balance out of $6000 total credit.
Other small changes that happened recently
- oldest account hit 7 years 6 months
- average age of accounts dropped from 2 yeaes 3 months to 2 years 1 month (dropping below 2 years would have done some damage I'm guessing but it's still above 2 years)
- age of newest account dropped from 5 months to 3 months (going below 3 months would have lost me about 10 points but it is still above the 3 month mark)
Please note that some of these changes had already occurred weeks ago, but I included all recent changes to help paint a more full picture.
Any new reason code(s) pop up?
Actually yes.
before the update when my age of oldest account was at 7 years 5 months. One of the positive reason codes was "established history"
once I hit 7 years 6 months, that positive code went away, and "you do not have an established history" is now a negative reason code.
Again, average age of accounts only lost a couple months, went from 2 years 3 months to 2 years 1 month. So, that is what made me think maybe I changed score cards? Because I know AoOA is a scorecard factor.
if I did change from young to mature score card, it would make sense why my "established history" went away.
becayse my account is now being compared against other accounts with 30 year history's, instead of being compared against accounts with 1-2 year history's. So I went from being at the top of the young side, to the very bottom of the mature side. Just a guess ?
@Cblough93 wrote:
Actually yes.
before the update when my age of oldest account was at 7 years 5 months. One of the positive reason codes was "established history"
once I hit 7 years 6 months, that positive code went away, and "you do not have an established history" is now a negative reason code.
Again, average age of accounts only lost a couple months, went from 2 years 3 months to 2 years 1 month. So, that is what made me think maybe I changed score cards? Because I know AoOA is a scorecard factor.if I did change from young to mature score card, it would make sense why my "established history" went away.
becayse my account is now being compared against other accounts with 30 year history's, instead of being compared against accounts with 1-2 year history's. So I went from being at the top of the young side, to the very bottom of the mature side. Just a guess ?
I think Fico 8 scorecard reassignment is believed to occur at AoOA = 3 yrs for clean profiles. And, yes people do report a score drop of 20-30 points I believe. You're on a clean profile, correct?