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General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20

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Established Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20


@Birdman7 wrote:

@ccquest wrote:
Guess I'm beyond the point where the new inquiry doesn't cause a point drop again (last was July 2nd, so definitely past 30 days). For the new CSP card I just got, the inquiry hit EX and AFAIK that is the only change at this time and caused a 7 point drop.

@ccquest did you mean new account or new inquiry? You said it didn't cost you any points but then it cost you 7 points? If you add a credit card, it should be penalize immediately. Only loan inquiries have the 30 day buffer.


I got a new inquiry because I opened a new account, account won't report until Oct-Nov I'm guessing.

 

I thought before you said the inquiries stop causing score changes, but probably misremembered that and it was more in fact that new accounts stop affecting (due to score card reassignment and the initial drop) and the other changes are more aging metrics (still iffy on that since I did observe drops each time with multiple new cards showing up in a month, same age).

 

Either way, new account score card already, new inquiry, and dropped 7 points.

as of 10/13/20
Current Cards:
Message 201 of 233
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Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20


@ccquest wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

@ccquest wrote:
Guess I'm beyond the point where the new inquiry doesn't cause a point drop again (last was July 2nd, so definitely past 30 days). For the new CSP card I just got, the inquiry hit EX and AFAIK that is the only change at this time and caused a 7 point drop.

@ccquest did you mean new account or new inquiry? You said it didn't cost you any points but then it cost you 7 points? If you add a credit card, it should be penalize immediately. Only loan inquiries have the 30 day buffer.


I got a new inquiry because I opened a new account, account won't report until Oct-Nov I'm guessing.

 

I thought before you said the inquiries stop causing score changes, but probably misremembered that and it was more in fact that new accounts stop affecting (due to score card reassignment and the initial drop) and the other changes are more aging metrics (still iffy on that since I did observe drops each time with multiple new cards showing up in a month, same age).

 

Either way, new account score card already, new inquiry, and dropped 7 points.


@ccquest there is a saturation point that you hit where they no longer charge for more inquiries it varies by profile.  

 

When a new revolver reports, it causes scorecard reassignment in version 8, if you do not already have an existing revolver under 12 months of age. As long as you have a revolver under 12 months of age, then if any subsequent revolvers report, any changes are due to ages, typically, besides any potential inquiry penalty at the time of the inquiry.

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 202 of 233
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Established Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20

Depending on when this one reports as the new account, I wonder what sort of impact it'll have. At that time, it'll be the only one under 3 months as my other revolvers will all be at least 3 months at the start of October.

Looking at my EX tracker again, I lost 3 points originally for the an inquiry on a clean scorecard, then lost 3 again for the next inquiry. Then the scorecard reassignment happened and new accounts started happening so this is the first inquiry on the new account scorecard and it was 7 points.

I'm imagining around down 16-20 for the new account, but up 15-16 for the last revolver aging to 3 months so overall net change for October won't be much. Then for December or January AOYA will be over 3 months again and points should be back up.
as of 10/13/20
Current Cards:
Message 203 of 233
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Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20


@ccquest wrote:
Depending on when this one reports as the new account, I wonder what sort of impact it'll have. At that time, it'll be the only one under 3 months as my other revolvers will all be at least 3 months at the start of October.

Looking at my EX tracker again, I lost 3 points originally for the an inquiry on a clean scorecard, then lost 3 again for the next inquiry. Then the scorecard reassignment happened and new accounts started happening so this is the first inquiry on the new account scorecard and it was 7 points.

I'm imagining around down 16-20 for the new account, but up 15-16 for the last revolver aging to 3 months so overall net change for October won't be much. Then for December or January AOYA will be over 3 months again and points should be back up.

@ccquest Yes there's a difference in points for inquiries on different scorecards; it's cool that you observed that. Appreciate the dps!

 

Actually you're right, aging can include AoYA anytime a new account reports, if it crosses thresholds like you said, which 3 months has been identified on some cards/CRAs. (And loans affect AoYA, whereas they do not affect AoYRA.)

 

I don't think you're going to see that much of a point loss on the new account reporting though because you're already in a new account scorecard, so there's no new account penalty, it will simply be the aging metrics, AoYA, AAoRA, and AAoA, thresholds depending, imho.

 

Remind me how many points was the scorecard reassignment when the first account reported?

 

Edit: @ccquest it's possible you may not cross any average aging thresholds and just see an improvement from AoYA, version and bureau depending.

 

If you were to calculate all your aging metrics, you could determine where they're going from and to and what thresholds you may cross, try to figure it all out.

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 204 of 233
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Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20

**ccquest has created an awesome Excel sheet that will calculate utilization, balances and ages easily for you at Link.   ** it is a work in progress being improved!

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 205 of 233
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Established Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20

For some reason that link just takes me to the third page and not anchored to a post, here's a direct link to the original post which has the latest version of the file right at the top.

 

Thanks for the shout out, but did it all because of the help from this thread!

 

edit » @Birdman7 yeah it works now, here and on the front page. Not sure what was going on.

as of 10/13/20
Current Cards:
Message 206 of 233
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Established Member

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20

My scores dropped 18-31 points today when my oldest account hit the 3 year segmentation threshold.  

 

DATA POINTS

01 OCT (oldest account turns 3 years)

EP 733 (8)

EF 718 (8)

TU 738 (5)

*UT 14%

 

16 SEP (oldest account 2 years & 11 months)

EP 754 (8)

EF 749 (9)

TU 753 (6)

*UT 14%

 

01 SEP (oldest account 2 years & 11 months)

EP 744 (8)

EF 727 (9)

TU 746 (6)

*UT 12%

Message 207 of 233
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Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20


@RenalPresher wrote:

My scores dropped 18-31 points today when my oldest account hit the 3 year segmentation threshold.  

 

DATA POINTS

01 OCT (oldest account turns 3 years)

EP 733 (8)

EF 718 (8)

TU 738 (5)

*UT 14%

 

16 SEP (oldest account 2 years & 11 months)

EP 754 (8)

EF 749 (9)

TU 753 (6)

*UT 14%

 

01 SEP (oldest account 2 years & 11 months)

EP 744 (8)

EF 727 (9)

TU 746 (6)

*UT 12%


@RenalPresher thank you for your data points and the confirmation of the score 8 three year segmentation threshold for young/mature. 

 

While you suffered a score decrease, be aware your scores will now be more stable and the penalties will be smaller. It's kind of like a right of passage, you've graduated from the top of one ladder to the bottom of another.

 

Please update us on how long it takes you to get back to your baseline score. 

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 208 of 233
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Frequent Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20

Love all the work everyone has put into this Primer!  Haven't visited it in a while, so the cheat sheet in the beginning is a nice add.  I like it!

 

So, one of the things I'm still not sure about is AU accounts and how they affect the aging metrics.  I didn't see this in the Primer, but probably missed it while scanning through.

 

If a person has 1 or more AU accounts that have been verified to affect Fico 8 scores (thru the AU AZ penalty), are those AU accounts treated as that person's own accounts in the AGING metrics?  So if an AU account is the oldest revolving account, does that mean the AU account = AoORA or is the person's own oldest individual revolver the AoORA?



Authorized User
Message 209 of 233
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Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20


@Duke_Nukem wrote:

Love all the work everyone has put into this Primer!  Haven't visited it in a while, so the cheat sheet in the beginning is a nice add.  I like it!

 

So, one of the things I'm still not sure about is AU accounts and how they affect the aging metrics.  I didn't see this in the Primer, but probably missed it while scanning through.

 

If a person has 1 or more AU accounts that have been verified to affect Fico 8 scores (thru the AU AZ penalty), are those AU accounts treated as that person's own accounts in the AGING metrics?  So if an AU account is the oldest revolving account, does that mean the AU account = AoORA or is the person's own oldest individual revolver the AoORA?


@Duke_Nukem Yes if it's counting on 8 & 9, you're absolutely correct. They should count fully on all versions if they're not caught by the anti-abuse algorithm on 8 and 9.

 

and thank you for the kind words we are very appreciative! There is also a table of contents in post 8 to help you find what you need.

 

@Duke_Nukem sorry you know I'm habitual editor. 

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 210 of 233
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