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General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20

Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread Pub.5.17.20


@CassieCard wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

Remember ABORT?!


I went looking for this again and found some things under "Average balance across all trade lines".

 

After looking at the dates on some of these PDFs/links, I think this characteristic may only belong to the mortgage scores.

(See them here, and note the PDF from Credco about mortgages and TU FICO 98/ EX II.)

 

Something else interesting: I lost some points recently on TU 4 going from 4/4 @ $1571 to 4/4 @ $1807. We speculated it might be a $1600 balance threshold.

 

But that's also an ABORT change from $392.75 to $451.75! It could be a $400 threshold for "Average Balance across all trade lines" (on TU 4 only). Just something to watch out for in the future. If something looks weird, like my score change above, check the ABORT value and see if it looks like a threshold.

 

Maybe this is a real characteristic on the mortgage scores and the attributes in the graphic are just approximations.

 

I know where this was posted, but I never found the original FICO source PDF.I know where this was posted, but I never found the original FICO source PDF.


@CassieCard very astute observation. You're correct, that could be throwing some curves into point changes not previously considered. 

-Community’s scoring wisdom: Scoring Primer.
-New: MORTGAGE SECTION.
-Negative Reason Codes: CassieCard’s Score Factors.
-Calculate metrics with ccquest’s Workbook.

Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Revolver - 8,9; Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Account - 5/4/2.
Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.





(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 401 of 487
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20


@Birdman7 wrote:
Yeah the amount didn’t change but the proportion did and there may be a threshold there it just hasn’t been popularity found if so.

But @ccquest, there’s an easy way to resolve this: keep an eye on it and see if you get those points back when your aggregate instalment utilisation dips under say 89%, because that’s where the threshold would be most likely to be, but it would definitely have to be by 86%, because that’s where you were at.

@ccquest BTW, @Remedios found that at 87%, IIRC, as a heads up. I don't know if you ever got a chance to notice it again. 

-Community’s scoring wisdom: Scoring Primer.
-New: MORTGAGE SECTION.
-Negative Reason Codes: CassieCard’s Score Factors.
-Calculate metrics with ccquest’s Workbook.

Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Revolver - 8,9; Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Account - 5/4/2.
Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.





(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 402 of 487
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20


@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
Below are a couple threads that discuss cards reportings balances. Admittedly, I have not read thru this thread and some of my bullet point observations have undoubtedly been discussed:

* Dirty scorecards don't look at # cards reporting balances as a scoring factor.

* The older Fico 04 and Fico 98 models "mortgage models" put more emphasis on # cards reporting balances than does Fico 8 and Fico 9.

* Equifax (EQ) tweaked version of Fico adds emphasis to score change associated with increased # cards reporting. This is particularly true on the Fico 04 model (score 5).

* Experian has de-emphasized cards reporting as a scoring factor.

* A study I did on EQ Fico 8 BCE showed score changes associated with incremental increase in # cards reporting. On a percentage basis went from 20% => 40% => 80% => 100%. Unfortunately no data points with 3 cards reporting. Could be score change 2 => 3 but no change 3 => 4, can't say either way. [Single INQ score 6 to 8 points lower than zero INQ score on BCE Fico 8 - could spread increase as # cards reporting increases?]

* I saw no change on any Classic Fico 8 score going from 1 of 5 to 5 of 5 cards reporting balances. This may have been due to the 850 buffer. Regardless, Classic Fico 8 is not as sensitive to # cards reporting as Bank Card Enhanced (BCE) Fico 8.

* New account scorecards are more sensitive to # cards reporting balances.

 


@Thomas_Thumb do you maintain the above bolded as currently accurate or has your position evolved? and actually I should ask it as: do dirty cards consider number of AWB (accounts with a balance) as a scoring factor? Thank you for your time!

 

@LaHossBoss The number of AWB may not matter while you're in a dirty card. 

-Community’s scoring wisdom: Scoring Primer.
-New: MORTGAGE SECTION.
-Negative Reason Codes: CassieCard’s Score Factors.
-Calculate metrics with ccquest’s Workbook.

Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Revolver - 8,9; Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Account - 5/4/2.
Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.





(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 403 of 487
ccquest
Established Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20


@Birdman7 wrote:

 

@ccquest BTW, @Remedios found that at 87%, IIRC, as a heads up. I don't know if you ever got a chance to notice it again. 

Do you know how tightly she tracked that? I'm at 89.08% on EX right now, should get down to 88.81% in the next couple days, then 88.36% as May starts. Three months to get to 86.6%.

as of 4/1/21
Current Cards:
Message 404 of 487
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20


@ccquest wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

 

@ccquest BTW, @Remedios found that at 87%, IIRC, as a heads up. I don't know if you ever got a chance to notice it again. 

Do you know how tightly he tracked that? I'm at 89.08% on EX right now, should get down to 88.81% in the next couple days, then 88.36% as May starts. Three months to get to 86.6%.


@ccquest i'm fairly certain it was tracked very closely, but I will allow @Remedios  to speak for herself, if she will be so kind? Smiley Wink I just went and looked in the primer and I had it at 88%, so I may be off by a percent.

-Community’s scoring wisdom: Scoring Primer.
-New: MORTGAGE SECTION.
-Negative Reason Codes: CassieCard’s Score Factors.
-Calculate metrics with ccquest’s Workbook.

Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Revolver - 8,9; Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Account - 5/4/2.
Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.





(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 405 of 487
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20

 @Revelate cleared up how HELOCS are believed to factor on 5/4/3/2, so I added a HELOCS section under Mortgage Scores discussing this and linking his original thread and findings. 

 

@ccquest as memory serves, I believe each payment was 2% so it could've been 87% or 88%, so maybe you can resolve which one it is for us when you pass it? 

-Community’s scoring wisdom: Scoring Primer.
-New: MORTGAGE SECTION.
-Negative Reason Codes: CassieCard’s Score Factors.
-Calculate metrics with ccquest’s Workbook.

Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Revolver - 8,9; Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Account - 5/4/2.
Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.





(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 406 of 487
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20

EX2 New account threshold found at 18 months:

 

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/EX2-New-account-segmentation-Threshold-1...


EQ5:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/EQ5-New-account-threshold-found-at-18-mo...

TU4:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/TU4-New-account-threshold-found-at-18-mo...

 

so that means best recommendations pre-mortgage is likely 18 months without a new account. 

I lost points on EQ5 by the way. 

-Community’s scoring wisdom: Scoring Primer.
-New: MORTGAGE SECTION.
-Negative Reason Codes: CassieCard’s Score Factors.
-Calculate metrics with ccquest’s Workbook.

Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Revolver - 8,9; Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Account - 5/4/2.
Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.





(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 407 of 487
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread Pub.5.17.20

So the improved Mortgage Score section has been moved to the beginning of Post 6, where I think it will remain, and is now Section 9.

Permalink: https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/General-Scoring-Primer-and-Version-8-Mas...
-Community’s scoring wisdom: Scoring Primer.
-New: MORTGAGE SECTION.
-Negative Reason Codes: CassieCard’s Score Factors.
-Calculate metrics with ccquest’s Workbook.

Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Revolver - 8,9; Clean/Thick/Mature/No New Account - 5/4/2.
Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.





(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 408 of 487
CassieCard
Senior Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread Pub.5.17.20


@Birdman7 wrote:
So the improved Mortgage Score section has been moved to the beginning of Post 6, where I think it will remain, and is now Section 9.

Permalink: https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/General-Scoring-Primer-and-Version-8-Mas...

Nice edit on the mortgage scores. Just gets better every month!

 

I found similiar to this sentence is in a number of recently published articles about credit and thin files:

"Consumers with little or no credit history are considered to have thin credit files." *SMH + Eye roll*

 

So yeah, that's what's been out there for people. So much so that a person could be forgiven for thinking that a thin file was somehow related to aging. At least FICO, Experian, and TransUnion have articles that use the correct meaning of it: low number of tradelines. (But these don't go to the top of news aggregator sites like Google News.)

Keeper of the Scrolls of Resilience: EQ FICO Resilience Index Score Leaderboard (59 People!)

Message 409 of 487
CassieCard
Senior Contributor

Re: General Scoring Primer and Version 8 Master Thread, pub.5.17.20

@Birdman7: lol I saw that edit. Thanks! I guess "Rule of 3" is catchier than Age Mod 3 = 0 .

Keeper of the Scrolls of Resilience: EQ FICO Resilience Index Score Leaderboard (59 People!)

Message 410 of 487
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