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HERE'S THE SKINNY ON ZERO BALANCES

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smallfry
Senior Contributor

Re: HERE'S THE SKINNY ON ZERO BALANCES

I've always thought TU liked 0 balances. I guess like everything else credit it's a YMMV. Since I've gotten my AMEX I can't test the 0 balance theory since they don't report much for me. 2 CC with balances my TU is 790 with 1 it's 796. EQ with 1 card reporting a balance it's 792. 

Message 21 of 32
vanillabean
Valued Contributor

Re: HERE'S THE SKINNY ON ZERO BALANCES

 


@Anonymous wrote:

So... Is it safe to assume it's best to carry a 3-9% balance on at least half your cards?


 

Your assumption is very close actually. Smiley Happy

 

Having 3 cards, my EQ gain was the biggest zeroing the first card, which means more than half of my cards were still reporting a plus balance. That's different with TU in that being down to the last card having a plus balance gave the biggest gain, which would also explain why TU more so than EQ penalized me for arriving at the overall $0 baseline.

 

DW has 4 cards reporting, which means the halfway point, 2 cards, could be noted. Her EQ provided nice gains zeroing the first card and also the second, but less at zeroing the third. With TU, the smallest gain of the three steps was in zeroing the second card. So zeroing the first was a nice gain, and leaving one with a plus balance was a nice gain, which roughly correlates with my cards.

 

All of this addresses neither the utilization (overall and of individual cards) nor the (remaining) dollar totals on the various cards. It does however take into consideration (to the extent I'm aware of it) other minor variables whose gains and losses I have put aside (no rebucketing, but there was slight aging, and we each got an inquiry at some point).

 

The personal or general experiences of others may differ some or radically. While the validity of those (and mine) may be depend on how detailed they are recorded haha, it goes without saying there's bound to be some variance, even with people within the same rough score range (we're in the so-called excellent category).

 

Looking into the near future, we have two situations that bring about plus balances on one card each for each of DW and me. I didn't plan it that way, but that's ok. One card only will come soon enough. (A Discover for each of us will report for the first time before or after an Amex we share which is slow in reporting.)

 

Anyway, the whole standstill of the $0 baseline with utilization out of the way brought all of our scores pretty close to each other. For both of us, EQ is 3 points higher than TU. She's 11 points higher than where I'm at. So what about EX? You can't purchase Beacon 05, but I was willing to settle for Beacon 09. All three for both us were within a small range. Six points for her, five points for me. My EX was in the middle, lowest for her. EQ was best for both of us.

 

Which model is the standard? Looking at the FICOs for our refinance last fall, the EQs were Beacon 05, but the TUs were the TU 04 of most mortgage lenders while myFICO uses TU 98. The EXs were FICO II, earlier than both FICO III and FICO 08 (Beacon 09 in EQ speak).

 

Our Beacons 09 vs 05 were consistent. 09 was 6 points lower for my EQ, 4 points for DW's. 8 points lower for my TU, 3 points for DW's. I may want to run the comparison again later, just once more, when we have some steady utilization. Our TU 98s are likely to soar based on our experience, less so with the rest.

 

Correction: The mentioned Beacon 09 that I pulled yesterday was really an Equifax Credit Score (280-850). Had me going there for a bit.

 

Message 22 of 32
haulingthescoreup
Moderator Emerita

Re: HERE'S THE SKINNY ON ZERO BALANCES

Most of us find that we do better to have balances on fewer than half, not more.

 

I have 11 open revolving accounts, including a line of credit, and I aim for 1 with a balance, or 2 at the most. After that, both scores start going down. When my scores were lower, as in the 700-720 range, I think I could get away with 3 on EQ before I saw a score drop.

* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Message 23 of 32
vanillabean
Valued Contributor

Re: HERE'S THE SKINNY ON ZERO BALANCES

 


@haulingthescoreup wrote:

Most of us find that we do better to have balances on fewer than half, not more.


 

Yup, that's why all OP had to do was to turn his truck around. Smiley Very Happy

 

What I focused on at the time was that both ends of the road are of interest. You zero the first card, which may result in a significant gain. You zero the last card, which may result in a significant loss.

 


I have 11 open revolving accounts, including a line of credit, and I aim for 1 with a balance, or 2 at the most. After that, both scores start going down. When my scores were lower, as in the 700-720 range, I think I could get away with 3 on EQ before I saw a score drop.

 

I was wondering if you recall the point increases for each card that you zeroed.The pattern would be most useful, I think.

 

 

Message 24 of 32
DD60
Valued Member

Re: HERE'S THE SKINNY ON ZERO BALANCES

Could you please enlighten me on the definition of "balance" as used on the board?  I thought it was the unpaid portion of one's statement from the previous month - which would generate interest due on the account.  For that reason, I never leave that kind of balance.  If I were to charge $3000 one month and pay only $2990 in order to leave a $10 balance, I would be hit with something like $50 in interest charges.  However, if "balance" refers to the amount on one's account at any given time, then I do try to have a small balance on the statement every month, paying it off the day after the statement is issued.   (I believe this is what you said you have been doing since Dec 09 - paying off all but $10 BEFORE the statement is issued).  Since I still can't get my score to move up, I am considering overpaying every account for a couple of months so that the statements all show a credit (positive) balance.  I Can't wait to see what, if anything, happens to my score then.


Starting Score: 777
Current Score: 854
Goal Score: 900


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Message 25 of 32
haulingthescoreup
Moderator Emerita

Re: HERE'S THE SKINNY ON ZERO BALANCES

 


@DD60 wrote:

Could you please enlighten me on the definition of "balance" as used on the board?  I thought it was the unpaid portion of one's statement from the previous month - which would generate interest due on the account.  For that reason, I never leave that kind of balance.  If I were to charge $3000 one month and pay only $2990 in order to leave a $10 balance, I would be hit with something like $50 in interest charges.  However, if "balance" refers to the amount on one's account at any given time, then I do try to have a small balance on the statement every month, paying it off the day after the statement is issued.   (I believe this is what you said you have been doing since Dec 09 - paying off all but $10 BEFORE the statement is issued).  Since I still can't get my score to move up, I am considering overpaying every account for a couple of months so that the statements all show a credit (positive) balance.  I Can't wait to see what, if anything, happens to my score then.


 

Overpaying won't help. A $5000 credit will be calculated as a $0 balance.

 

But paying a bit early so that $0 is reported on all but one account will help. Be sure to let one account --only one --report a token balance, $10 for instance. Don't forget to then pay off that $10, which is frighteningly easy to do. Unless your scores are really high, you will lose points for having all accounts report $0.

 

For those new to this baffling fact, there's good financial sense, and then there's what influences your FICO scores.

 

The CRA's (credit reporting agencies; credit bureaus) chose to report in most cases the balance owed that shows on your monthly statement. For a few banks, it's your balance on the last business day of the month. Nevertheless, they did not choose to report the balance remaining on your due date. So it's the reported balance on your statement or as of the last day of the month that is used to determine your util (revolving utilization), which is a big driver of your FICO scores.

 

Those who (most sensibly) wait until their statements drop and then pay the amount due on the statement, without ever carrying a balance, will see their scores hurt, because it looks like they're carrying debt. Many of us pay several days before the statement posts in order to control what is reported to the CRA's.

* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Message 26 of 32
poet
Regular Contributor

Re: HERE'S THE SKINNY ON ZERO BALANCES

Okay, wait. Let me get this straight. I just PIFd all my cards. Then, my CapOne MC ($500 CL) showed a $4 balance, I think, and my Orchard Bank VISA (CL $300) showed a $14 plus change balance. I paid the $4 balance today after everyone reported and my scores had gone up (quite a lot). Are you saying I should have left that tiny "statement balance" in place until next month? I was afraid it would push me into a late-pay situation. My CC bills are all due near the end/beginning of the month -- the 30th, 31st, 1st, or so. Other cards include IKEA $500 CL, Lowes Project Card (revolving line, not credit card) $2K, and Wal-Mart $700. There are a couple of other cards I'm authorized to use but really never use anymore, and some show on EX but not on TU/EQ anymore.


Starting Score: 550
Current Score: 673 EQ, 681 TU, 650 EX
Goal Score: 720

Update April 1: TU 615/EQ624
Update June 28: TU 641/EQ 626
Update Sept 21: TU 681, EQ 673, EX 650 (FAKO)
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Message 27 of 32
haulingthescoreup
Moderator Emerita

Re: HERE'S THE SKINNY ON ZERO BALANCES

Not sure I'm reading you right, but if those $4 and $14 balances were owed by you (as opposed as credits owed TO you), then yes, you absolutely have to pay them off. If they show on the statement, they have to be paid, or the minimum has to be paid, by the due date, even if you paid a thousand bucks before the statement posted.

 

Forgetting to finish paying them off is an excellent way to shoot yourself in the foot. Smiley Tongue

* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Message 28 of 32
vanillabean
Valued Contributor

Re: HERE'S THE SKINNY ON ZERO BALANCES

 


@haulingthescoreup wrote:

 

Forgetting to finish paying them off is an excellent way to shoot yourself in the foot. Smiley Tongue


 

I have all my cards set to automatically pay in full by the due date. Just to make sure there's money in the checking to cover it.

 

Message 29 of 32
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: HERE'S THE SKINNY ON ZERO BALANCES

I took a 12 point hit for no balances. Smiley Sad

Message 30 of 32
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