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Looking for comparison "graph" to compare mortgage scores to FICO 8 category weightings

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Looking for comparison "graph" to compare mortgage scores to FICO 8 category weightings

So we're basically all familiar with the chart/graph of the general category weightings for FICO 8: 35% payment history, 30% amount of debt, etc. What I'm looking for, is the same thing but for the "older" versions that are used for mortgages, aka "mortgage scores." I've tried searching the boards here, and not really finding it. I'd like to believe that such a thing exists, that somebody has posted this, but that I'm just not finding it of my own fault. 

 

FICO 8 Scores currently EQ: 705 TU 677 EX 681, but I'm certain I will have a bump this month as I've paid off around $25k in credit card debt, and $3400 remaining on my last car note. (though remains to be seen if this helps or hurts, I do have other student loans so will still be installment loans on my file. One card paid already posted and increased 9-14 pts on the bureaus, so waiting for the other one, and the car note to report.

 

The issue is, my mortgage scores have lagged far behind: EQ 657 TU 643 EX 677. 

 

I've got 1 30 day late payment in last 8 years. A few medical collections on the TU report (from 2015/2016). But previously somewhere around 65% overall credit line utilization. Will now be 3 of 9 cards with a balance. 

 

Just odd to me that there would be such a big difference in the scores. FICO 8 already places 30% on utilization, am I to understand/believe that the mortgage versions are weight THAT much more to account for 30-50 point differences? 

Message 1 of 12
11 REPLIES 11
Horseshoez
Valued Contributor

Re: Looking for comparison "graph" to compare mortgage scores to FICO 8 category weighting


@Anonymous wrote:

So we're basically all familiar with the chart/graph of the general category weightings for FICO 8: 35% payment history, 30% amount of debt, etc. What I'm looking for, is the same thing but for the "older" versions that are used for mortgages, aka "mortgage scores." I've tried searching the boards here, and not really finding it. I'd like to believe that such a thing exists, that somebody has posted this, but that I'm just not finding it of my own fault. 

 

FICO 8 Scores currently EQ: 705 TU 677 EX 681, but I'm certain I will have a bump this month as I've paid off around $25k in credit card debt, and $3400 remaining on my last car note. (though remains to be seen if this helps or hurts, I do have other student loans so will still be installment loans on my file. One card paid already posted and increased 9-14 pts on the bureaus, so waiting for the other one, and the car note to report.

 

The issue is, my mortgage scores have lagged far behind: EQ 657 TU 643 EX 677. 

 

I've got 1 30 day late payment in last 8 years. A few medical collections on the TU report (from 2015/2016). But previously somewhere around 65% overall credit line utilization. Will now be 3 of 9 cards with a balance. 

 

Just odd to me that there would be such a big difference in the scores. FICO 8 already places 30% on utilization, am I to understand/believe that the mortgage versions are weight THAT much more to account for 30-50 point differences? 


The FICO 2, 5, 4 scores more than a tad mysterious to many, myself included; that said, I have the exact same issue, but in reverse.  My FICO 8 scores lag my mortgage scores by roughly 30 points across the board.  Why some folks see higher FICO 8s, and others see higher mortgage scores, I have no freakin' clue.

I categorically refuse to do AZEO!
Message 2 of 12
SouthJamaica
Mega Contributor

Re: Looking for comparison "graph" to compare mortgage scores to FICO 8 category weighting


@Anonymous wrote:

So we're basically all familiar with the chart/graph of the general category weightings for FICO 8: 35% payment history, 30% amount of debt, etc. What I'm looking for, is the same thing but for the "older" versions that are used for mortgages, aka "mortgage scores." I've tried searching the boards here, and not really finding it. I'd like to believe that such a thing exists, that somebody has posted this, but that I'm just not finding it of my own fault. 

 

FICO 8 Scores currently EQ: 705 TU 677 EX 681, but I'm certain I will have a bump this month as I've paid off around $25k in credit card debt, and $3400 remaining on my last car note. (though remains to be seen if this helps or hurts, I do have other student loans so will still be installment loans on my file. One card paid already posted and increased 9-14 pts on the bureaus, so waiting for the other one, and the car note to report.

 

The issue is, my mortgage scores have lagged far behind: EQ 657 TU 643 EX 677. 

 

I've got 1 30 day late payment in last 8 years. A few medical collections on the TU report (from 2015/2016). But previously somewhere around 65% overall credit line utilization. Will now be 3 of 9 cards with a balance. 

 

Just odd to me that there would be such a big difference in the scores. FICO 8 already places 30% on utilization, am I to understand/believe that the mortgage versions are weight THAT much more to account for 30-50 point differences? 


The mortgage scores and the FICO 8's react differently to different things.

 

E.g., in my experience

 

(a) the mortgage scores are more sensitive to the "aging" factors, like age of newest account, inquiries, average age of accounts

 

(b) the mortgage scores are more sensitive to 'number of accounts with balance'

 

(c) the 8's are more sensitive to aggregate revolving utilization percentage in dollars

 

(d) the 8's are more sensitive to aggregate installment loan utilization.

 

And yes 30 to 50% difference is easy.  When I was busily applying for and opening new cards, but keeping my utilization down to next to nothing, my 8's and 9's were running around 70 points higher than my mortgage scores.  Now that I'm not adding accounts, and my utilization is way up, my mortgage scores have been running neck and neck with my 8's and sometimes are higher.

 

One thing I can tell you is that you should concentrate on your revolving credit and not concern yourself with the installment loans, if you want to make the most impact on your mortgage scores.

 

And I'm sure you're already aware that you should not apply for any new credit, or anything that could result in a HP.


Total revolving limits 741200 (620700 reporting) FICO 8: EQ 701 TU 704 EX 685

Message 3 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Looking for comparison "graph" to compare mortgage scores to FICO 8 category weighting

In all reality FICO 5/4/2 models use the same general scoring categories and I would actually guesstimate each scoring category contibutes about the same percentage to your overall score as FICO 8; so payment history is probably 35% for both FICO 8 and FICO 5/4/2. The differences are more in how each category calculates points awarded.

 

A big difference, and one that is likely affecting your scores, is the difference between "scorecards". All FICO models have scorecards, but the Classic models have less scorecards and derogatories can lump you into a scorecard where your maximum score potential is capped much lower in classic models than it is in FICO 8 models. Additionally, FICO 8 is more forgiving of medical collections and collections with small balances. FICO 9, which still isn't widely used, is much more forgiving of small collections than 8.

 

FICO 8 also has individual utilization thresholds for cards that can net several point increases in comparison to classic models. FICO 5/4/2 prioritize overall installment utilization and also factor in number of Accounts with Balance and the number of accounts with high balances. When paying down cards you are much more likely to see score increases on F8 models with smaller payments and minimal changes in overall utilization.

 

New account penalties also last much longer on the classic scores, it takes 18 months of no new accounts (installment or revolving) to reach the no new accounts scorecard for 5/4/2 models. Reportedly, moving to this scorecard can help you gain a lot of points on the classic models. On FICO 8 it only takes 12 months to reach the no new revolver scorecard, and installment loans do not affect your progress toward reaching this scorecard.

Message 4 of 12
Horseshoez
Valued Contributor

Re: Looking for comparison "graph" to compare mortgage scores to FICO 8 category weighting

@Anonymous, every time I read an analysis of the differences between the classic 5/4/2 mortagage scores and FICO 8 I think, "I must be some sort of an outlier."  Why?  Because most of the points you raise about why FICO 8s vs. Classic scores suggest I should have higher FICO 8s instead of Classics, and the reverse is true.

 

A few datapoints:

  • My sole deragagory mark is the Chapter 13 I filed in 2015 which was discharged in March of 2020 (so clearly I'm on a "dirty" score card).
  • I have no lates anywhere on any of my reports.
  • Of my three credit cards, typically one or two report a trivial balance under $50 which in turn means my utilization is under 1% both overall and per card.
  • Regarding new accounts, I have 5 in the last 18 months, 3 of which were in the last 12 months, one SSL and four Credit Cards (one which I closed less than 7 weeks after I opened it).
  • My 5/4/2 scores are: 720/739/728 (EQ/TU/EX)
  • My FICO 8 scores are: 692/705/659 (EQ/TU/EX)

Like I wrote above, I must be some sort of an outlier as everyting I've read suggests my FICO 8 scores should be higher than my Classic 5/4/2 scores, and clearly such isn't the case.

I categorically refuse to do AZEO!
Message 5 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Looking for comparison "graph" to compare mortgage scores to FICO 8 category weighting


@Horseshoez wrote:

@Anonymous, every time I read an analysis of the differences between the classic 5/4/2 mortagage scores and FICO 8 I think, "I must be some sort of an outlier."  Why?  Because most of the points you raise about why FICO 8s vs. Classic scores suggest I should have higher FICO 8s instead of Classics, and the reverse is true.

 

A few datapoints:

  • My sole deragagory mark is the Chapter 13 I filed in 2015 which was discharged in March of 2020 (so clearly I'm on a "dirty" score card).
  • I have no lates anywhere on any of my reports.
  • Of my three credit cards, typically one or two report a trivial balance under $50 which in turn means my utilization is under 1% both overall and per card.
  • Regarding new accounts, I have 5 in the last 18 months, 3 of which were in the last 12 months, one SSL and four Credit Cards (one which I closed less than 7 weeks after I opened it).
  • My 5/4/2 scores are: 720/739/728 (EQ/TU/EX)
  • My FICO 8 scores are: 692/705/659 (EQ/TU/EX)

Like I wrote above, I must be some sort of an outlier as everyting I've read suggests my FICO 8 scores should be higher than my Classic 5/4/2 scores, and clearly such isn't the case.


That is certainly an unusual case! The gap between EX8 and EX2 is pretty significant! Is there anything on your Experian report that is not on the reports from the other bureaus?

Also, do you have any accounts from before the BK that are still on your reports? It seems like aged profiles are more resilient with classic scores.

Message 6 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Looking for comparison "graph" to compare mortgage scores to FICO 8 category weighting

Appreciate all the feedback. It will be interesting to see how the scores change with this months updates. 

Message 7 of 12
Horseshoez
Valued Contributor

Re: Looking for comparison "graph" to compare mortgage scores to FICO 8 category weighting


@Anonymous wrote:

@Horseshoez wrote:

@Anonymous, every time I read an analysis of the differences between the classic 5/4/2 mortagage scores and FICO 8 I think, "I must be some sort of an outlier."  Why?  Because most of the points you raise about why FICO 8s vs. Classic scores suggest I should have higher FICO 8s instead of Classics, and the reverse is true.

 

A few datapoints:

  • My sole deragagory mark is the Chapter 13 I filed in 2015 which was discharged in March of 2020 (so clearly I'm on a "dirty" score card).
  • I have no lates anywhere on any of my reports.
  • Of my three credit cards, typically one or two report a trivial balance under $50 which in turn means my utilization is under 1% both overall and per card.
  • Regarding new accounts, I have 5 in the last 18 months, 3 of which were in the last 12 months, one SSL and four Credit Cards (one which I closed less than 7 weeks after I opened it).
  • My 5/4/2 scores are: 720/739/728 (EQ/TU/EX)
  • My FICO 8 scores are: 692/705/659 (EQ/TU/EX)

Like I wrote above, I must be some sort of an outlier as everyting I've read suggests my FICO 8 scores should be higher than my Classic 5/4/2 scores, and clearly such isn't the case.


That is certainly an unusual case! The gap between EX8 and EX2 is pretty significant! Is there anything on your Experian report that is not on the reports from the other bureaus?

Also, do you have any accounts from before the BK that are still on your reports? It seems like aged profiles are more resilient with classic scores.


There are a few differences between the three reports:

  • My wife's former car:
    • EX: This report shows the loan as IIB (never late and paid in full)
      • I'm thinking this kind of helps AAoA.
      • Also of note, it shows this will remain on my report until July 2023 which I find a bit confusing; the loan was originated in November 2011, I filed Chapter 13 in February 2015, and the loan was paid in full in July 2016 (which I assume is driving the July 2023 date).  I just don't understand why the IIB reference will remain past the 7-year mark.
    • EQ: Pretty much a duplicate of the EX report but no reference to when it will fall off.
    • TU: This report shows the loan as well, but does not list it as IIB.
  • The HELOC on our former house:
    • EX: No reference at all.
    • EQ: Shows "Pays as Agreed" and seems to suggest the account is still open (it isn't, we sold the house in 2013).
    • TU: Shows "Pays as Agreed" and "Closed".

And that's it, everthing else is the same.

I categorically refuse to do AZEO!
Message 8 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Looking for comparison "graph" to compare mortgage scores to FICO 8 category weighting

@Horseshoez I have been pondering your scores and the discrepancies in comparison to what is expected and I am perplexed to say the least! haha  As you said, many factors indicate your F8s should likely be the higher scores, when they aren't

 

I will be interested to see how you score reacts if you start adding new accounts.

Message 9 of 12
Horseshoez
Valued Contributor

Re: Looking for comparison "graph" to compare mortgage scores to FICO 8 category weighting


@Anonymous wrote:

@Horseshoez I have been pondering your scores and the discrepancies in comparison to what is expected and I am perplexed to say the least! haha  As you said, many factors indicate your F8s should likely be the higher scores, when they aren't

 

I will be interested to see how you score reacts if you start adding new accounts.


Me too.  For the time being I'm gardening; my wife and I are contemplating buying or building a house next year so I'm sitting tight with the three cards I currently have.  Smiley Happy

I categorically refuse to do AZEO!
Message 10 of 12
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