No credit card required
Browse credit cards from a variety of issuers to see if there's a better card for you.
Yes, that's my only baddie. I posted in early January how surprised I was with the increase when TU apparently gave me an EE without asking.
Not sure if this is helpful considering my scores at that time but I have a copy of my 9/19/16 report when I only had an open MTG and a closed auto (6 months prior) as installments. Lot's of other baddies but my 9 scores were still 40+ pts higher.
@Anonymous wrote:
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:Note to BBS - take a look at aging factors that may be sub optimal possibly open loan AAoA, AoOA. Perhaps all loan AAoA and AoOA. It is possible these are more heavily weighted on Fico 9 - although only EX considers open only as a Fico attribute as I recall.
So it's possible that TU and EQ are taking into consideration closed loans? I would think if anything that would help my profile, as I have an older mortgage and older auto loans relative to my AAoA. I would definitely think that me not having an open auto loan currently would adversely impact my Auto scores.
When talking clean files (as I know there are some dirty differences between F8 and F9) is that a common attribute between files that generate a higher F9 score than their comparable F8? Perhaps it is age of accounts related and those with higher Score 9's have older age of accounts factors?
There are two age related installment loan metrics:
a) Open only which EX looks at
b) Open+closed which all three CRAs look at. [There is no closed only metric].
Lack of an Auto loan likely does impact Auto enhanced Fico score a small amount - not sure if open status matters. I have never had an auto loan but, still reached 897 on EX and TU Fico 8 Auto enhanced.
Your industry enhanced Fico 8 scores are on par with what I see and a bit higher on EQ Fico 04. However, your Fico 9 counterparts are 15 to 20 points lower on average. Why?
- I generally report balances on more cards at higher individual and aggregate utilizations than you.
- My loan B/L ratio is around 21%
- My installment loan AAoA = AoOA = 13 years (one open loan, no closed loans on file)
- Total of 7 open accounts and one closed accounts
- AoOA = 34 years (AMEX charge card) followed by a revolver at 30 years.
- Overall AAoA is 19 years with AoYA at 6.8 years.
Fico 9 has a 13th scorecard that specifically segments those with high revolving utilization. Could that mean that less weight is put on revolvers for the remaining 8 clean scorecards? Is so, where are those potential points being assigned?
You report lower balances on fewer cards and have a much thicker file than me. Your installment B/L ratio is substantially higher. Your AoYA and AAoA are substantially lower overall and for installment loans. Given my higher F9 scores, aging attributes, open installment loan payment history and aggregate installment utilization (B/L ratio) are potential attributes holding back your F9 scores. Otherwise, it could be some scoring attribute in Fico 9 that did not exist in earlier Fico models. [3 of 6 cards reporting balances for the below, AG UT between 2% and 3%]
...
Good info. I know my Auto scores are taking a hit from no current open auto loan, as my negative reason statements have stated such. How much, who knows.
I never figured out my installment loan AAoA, but in computing it now across my open and closed loans it comes out to 7.5 years, basically the same as my AAoA including all accounts.
I'm not sure my mortgage being at 75% is hurting my score at all at this point. I know many have theorized that mortgages are viewed differently than other installment loan types by FICO. I have not seen a negative reason statement pertaining to high installment loan utilization in quite some time now, which leads me to believe that perhaps I'm not experiencing a penalty there.
My guess is that FICO 9 does seem to care about [older] age of accounts factors a bit more than FICO 8, which IMO is a good thing if that's the case. Someone with 17 years AoOA verses twice that at (say) 34 years with substantially less history depth IMO should have a slightly lower score, even if in the real world those 10 points or whatever don't mean anything.
BBS --
Sharing all of my scores below, as of 02/01/2019. I know you know much of my history from other threads that you and I have participated in, but for those that are not, I am just wrapping up a long recovery following a foreclosure, credit card settlement and extremely high revolving debt and util. My scores at the time were in the 515-520 range. My Equifax and Experian reports are now completely clean. TU is showing a 30-day and 60-day late on a revolving account, which should turn positive in the next two months or so. I have no open mortgage account. I have two auto loans, both are well under 9% util. AoOA is 36 years, AAoA is about 14.5 years.
Equifax
FICO Score 8 - 850
FICO Mortgage Score 5 - 814
FICO Auto Score 5 - 832
FICO Auto Score 8 - 874
FICO Auto Score 9 - 885
FICO Bankcard 8 - 878
FICO Bankcard 5 - 832
FICO Bankcard 9 - 873
FICO Score 9 - 850
Experian
FICO Score 8 - 850
FICO Mortgage Score 2 - 823
FICO Auto Score 2 - 846
FICO Auto Score 8 - 896
FICO Auto Score 9 - 890
FICO Bankcard 8 - 900
FICO Bankcard 2 - 846
FICO Score 3 - 817
FICO Bankcard 9 - 882
FICO Score 9 - 850
TU
FICO Score 8 - 814
FICO Mortgage Score 4 - 805
FICO Auto Score 4 - 860
FICO Auto Score 8 - 848
FICO Auto Score 9 - 864
FICO Bankcard 8 - 845
FICO Bankcard 4 - 837
FICO Bankcard 9 - 854
FICO Score 9 - 846
(CK) Vantage 3.0 - 839/839
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
Interesting flip-flop on the Fico 8 vs Fico 9 scores. It would be helpful to know profile details associated with each snapshot. Also, do you have a hypothesis based on your internal review.
April 2018 Summary:
FICO 8 EQ 805 TU 810 EX 812
FICO 9 EQ 799 TU 808 EX 808
Aggregate Util EQ 6% TU 6% EX 5%
Inquiries, all within 6 months: EQ=4 TU=4 EX=2
Recent Accounts: 3 Credit Cards, Auto loan, all within 6 months
CC Individual utilization:
7 are between 10% and 21%
13 under 10%, reporting some $
5 at $0 balance
Nov 2018 Summary:
FICO 8 EQ 819 TU 826 EX 816
FICO 9 EQ 831 TU 826 EX 823
Aggregate Ut, 4% all bureaus
Inquiries, all 6-months to 12-months: EQ=2 TU=1 EX=1
Recent Accounts: 1 w/in 6 months, 2 in 6-12 months range
Individual Utilization:
1 at 45%
3 between 10% and 20%
9 under 10%, reporting $
10 at $0
Mortgage currently at about 82% utilization, 10 years.
Second mortgage nearly max
Toy SSL at about 45% in Jan 2018, about 30% in Nov 2018
@EW800 wrote:My Equifax and Experian reports are now completely clean. TU is showing a 30-day and 60-day late on a revolving account, which should turn positive in the next two months or so. I have no open mortgage account. I have two auto loans, both are well under 9% util. AoOA is 36 years, AAoA is about 14.5 years.
Equifax
FICO Score 8 - 850
FICO Score 9 - 850
FICO Auto Score 8 - 874
FICO Auto Score 9 - 885
FICO Bankcard 8 - 878
FICO Bankcard 9 - 873
FICO Score 9 - 850
Experian
FICO Score 8 - 850
FICO Score 9 - 850
FICO Auto Score 8 - 896
FICO Auto Score 9 - 890
FICO Bankcard 8 - 900
FICO Bankcard 9 - 882
(CK) Vantage 3.0 - 839/839
Congratulations on the EX BCE 900 and the VS3 839s!
Your VS3 scores tie for the highest I have seen reported. Much more difficult than Classic Fico 8 or Classic Fico 9 850s. More difficult than TU/EX BCE 900s. It was interesting to note the TU 839 which suggests the lates on your TU account are no longer impacting TU VS3. [How many open and closed accounts do you have on file? Is it more than 20?]
EQ has tweaked the Fico 8 BCE algorithm relative to TU/EX - no way to tell how. I've reached 900 on TU and EX but can't get past 892 on EQ. It looks like your EQ BCE lags as well.
When you 30/60 day late ages off TU in a couple months and your AoYA reaches one year in three months please update your 3B scores and report back. Chances are you will have TU/EX BCE 900s and even TU/EX Auto 900s. EQ counterparts in the 890s.
Thomas_Thumb --
You hit on something that I should have noticed, but didn't. You are correct, the fact that my two Vantage 3.0 scores are the same, would certainly suggest that the very old 30 and 60 day lates, that I have on TU only, have no impact on this model. I've inserted a shot of what sounds like is a rare score for V3.
I did not realize that 839 was about the highest V3 score we have seen. Interesting.
I believe I have about 13 open revolving and two (2) installment loans (auto), for a total of 15 open accounts. Technically it may be 16, as I have one account that has never been used, but I think it is just a backup for my checking account in the event of overdraft. I have one closed mortgage account that is completely positive, as it was an account that got transferred to another lender, just a month before the foreclosure issue began. It will fall off in a couple of years. I also have two closed auto loans, both positive. One will likely fall off in a couple of months and the other will show for another two years or so. My Equifax report has a closed revolving account, which was a CC settlement. You may recall it fell off of TU and EXP completely, but showed a bit differently on EQ, turning positive one month at a time. When it turned positive is when my EQ Score 8 went to 850.
Yes, I will absolutely report what happens when the 30/60 age off and the AoYA hits twelve months. Should be interesting.
Thanks again!
@NRB525 wrote:
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
Interesting flip-flop on the Fico 8 vs Fico 9 scores. It would be helpful to know profile details associated with each snapshot. Also, do you have a hypothesis based on your internal review.
Mortgage currently at about 82% utilization, 10 years.
Second mortgage nearly max
Toy SSL at about 45% in Jan 2018, about 30% in Nov 2018
Thanks for the data
Unfortunately your data conflicts with my hypothesis that #/% cards reporting and UT% are less important on Fico 9 compared to Fico 8. About the only thing that appears consistent is Fico 9 potentially giving more weight to increased installment loan AoOA - could 10 years be a milestone? I put your scores in table form (pasted below) to help with comparison.
...
EW800, thanks for sharing all of your scores and data.
It seems clear to me that age of accounts factors here when looking at my scores verses yours and TT's (which are pretty close when looking at AoOA and AAoA) are probably the biggest difference. It would be cool to know the breakpoints though. Do we have any forum members with AoOA and AAoA factors somewhere in between ours? I'm thinking someone with a 10-12 year AAoA and a 20-25 year AoOA. I'm curious if someone with those age of accounts factors would land closer to my scores or yours/TTs.
Completely off topic here, but I got an email tonight that my monthly membership from MF was cancelled, couldn't be processed and that a refund was going to my CC. Clearly it was processed (or by definition there wouldn't be anything to cancel) as evidenced by the fact that I started this thread with all of the provided scores. The membership is definitely deleted, though, as I cannot see any of the scores and there's no archived information for me to access. I'm glad I started this thread, as it's a written record of my scores on that date since I hadn't recorded them any other way. I guess I got the cheapest 28 score pull in history?