cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Some CU CCs/LOCs ignored by EX2 for AZEO?

Your FICO® Scores can impact your loan interest rates, terms, approvals and more.
Highlighted
Valued Contributor

Some CU CCs/LOCs ignored by EX2 for AZEO?

This has been addressed somewhat, but it was suggested that we start a specific thread. Thanks to CGID for assistance with the following:

A few people on the forum think that major credit cards by some CUs are ignored by FICO EX2 when attempting to implement the AZEO strategy.

That is what this thread is about. We are trying to collect case studies where you implemented AZEO with a CU-backed major credit card -- and either it worked or it didn't. ("Didn't" should mean that you received the typical 15-20 point penalty on EX2 for having all revolving accounts at zero, even though you in fact had a major credit card from a CU reporting a balance.)

Note that major credit card here means any true credit card (not a charge card) and it must have a VISA, MC, Discover, or Amex logo.

Implementing AZEO should include having a small positive balance on the card. i.e. greater than $5 but definitely less than 8.99% of that card's limit.

The scores we are interested in are FICO EX2 mortgage scores. If you have additional information about what happened with a different kind of FICO score feel free to mention that.

If the information is hearsay, do everything you can to track down the original claim and who made it. We'll want to ask them to re-test it if we find them.

Also please be specific as to which CU because we have claims that some count and some do not. For instance, backend processing by PSCU appears to count (thanks to @CassieCard) while TLs from DCU appear not to count. Thank you for your input.




Considering BBVA and 5% cards. (Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
11 REPLIES 11
Super Contributor

Re: Some CU CCs/LOCs ignored by EX2 for AZEO?

What reason do you have for thinking that credit union cards may behave differently than bank cards? In my experience there is no difference.


7/1/18: FICO8 EQ 749 TU 783 EX 746 Total revolving limits 713500 (592500 reporting)
Message 2 of 12
Valued Contributor

Re: Some CU CCs/LOCs ignored by EX2 for AZEO?

@SJ Basically data from two really sharp My Ficoers: Revelate and SouthJaimaica, for example, where SJ had no revolving credit reason codes when he only carried balances on CU accounts.😉 For example:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/EX-FICO-2-Not-Using-Revolving-Credit/td-...




Considering BBVA and 5% cards. (Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Message 3 of 12
Super Contributor

Re: Some CU CCs/LOCs ignored by EX2 for AZEO?


@Birdman7 wrote:
@SJ Basically data from two really sharp My Ficoers: Revelate and SouthJaimaica, for example, where SJ had no revolving credit reason codes when he only carried balances on CU accounts.😉 For example:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/EX-FICO-2-Not-Using-Revolving-Credit/td-...

Corrections:

1. @Revelate is really smart; I'm just a novice who sits at his feet.

2. I was never at any point testing anything for AZEO.

3. I did do a back-test to see if the "No revolving account usage" reason code was showing up in EX FICO 2 when only credit union accounts were reporting balances and that turned out not  to be the case. But even that test had nothing to do with AZEO, I was just checking Revelate's suggestion on the narrow point that possibly the error code was reporting when only credit union accounts and/or accounts with >35k limits were the ones reporting. My testing suggested that Revelate's suggestion did not prove out.


7/1/18: FICO8 EQ 749 TU 783 EX 746 Total revolving limits 713500 (592500 reporting)
Message 4 of 12
Valued Contributor

Re: Some CU CCs/LOCs ignored by EX2 for AZEO?

What I’m interested in finding out is why certain CU products do not count for EX2. As I said in the beginning of the first post, CGID assisted in composing the post, I simply edited it to correct a misunderstanding.

He thought my concern was the effect of CU products on classic eight. My concern is the effect of certain CU products on EX2. Really has nothing to do with AZEO, except that it would have the effect to cause AZEO to fail if a CU CC were used and did not count. So the fact remains, both you and Revelate have had instances where CU CC‘s and LOCs have appeared not to count in EX2. If it did not count and a person used that as their AZEO card, they could suffer the no revolving penalty. Therefore, I feel it is worthwhile to figure out this mystery as to why certain CU products do not count and CGID’s expertise in designing tests far surpasses mine, so therefore I gladly accepted his help in composing and designing the experiment. He promised to chime in and I look forward to his expertise and guidance. Hopefully Revelate will chime in as well.

So, whether or not you were testing AZEO really is irrelevant. You had the no revolving usage code show up when you only had only bank products greater than 35K or CU products. I would love to hear more about the back test you said you did. Because it appears that certain CUs count and certain ones do not and I would love to know what determines whether or not they count.

For example if the backend processor is PSCU, we know it counts. But if it’s DCU it appears not to count. Am I incorrect am I wrong or am I misunderstanding something? If so please correct me.




Considering BBVA and 5% cards. (Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Message 5 of 12
Super Contributor

Re: Some CU CCs/LOCs ignored by EX2 for AZEO?


@Birdman7 wrote:
What I’m interested in finding out is why certain CU products do not count for EX2. As I said in the beginning of the first post, CGID assisted in composing the post, I simply edited it to correct a misunderstanding.

He thought my concern was the effect of CU products on classic eight. My concern is the effect of certain CU products on EX2. Really has nothing to do with AZEO, except that it would have the effect to cause AZEO to fail if a CU CC were used and did not count. So the fact remains, both you and Revelate have had instances where CU CC‘s and LOCs have appeared not to count in EX2. If it did not count and a person used that as their AZEO card, they could suffer the no revolving penalty. Therefore, I feel it is worthwhile to figure out this mystery as to why certain CU products do not count and CGID’s expertise in designing tests far surpasses mine, so therefore I gladly accepted his help in composing and designing the experiment. He promised to chime in and I look forward to his expertise and guidance. Hopefully Revelate will chime in as well.

So, whether or not you were testing AZEO really is irrelevant. You had the no revolving usage code show up when you only had only bank products greater than 35K or CU products. I would love to hear more about the back test you said you did. Because it appears that certain CUs count and certain ones do not and I would love to know what determines whether or not they count.

For example if the backend processor is PSCU, we know it counts. But if it’s DCU it appears not to count. Am I incorrect am I wrong or am I misunderstanding something? If so please correct me.

You ask "why certain CU products do not count for EX2", which means you are starting from a belief that certain CU products do not count for EX2.

 

And I have not found that to be the case. From my experience all CU products are treated the same as bank products.

 

So I ask: what reason do you have for thinking that credit union cards may behave differently than bank cards? 


7/1/18: FICO8 EQ 749 TU 783 EX 746 Total revolving limits 713500 (592500 reporting)
Message 6 of 12
Valued Contributor

Re: Some CU CCs/LOCs ignored by EX2 for AZEO?

The reason codes for no revolving credit when you and Revelate only had CU products with balances.... or TL’s over 35K.





Considering BBVA and 5% cards. (Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Message 7 of 12
Super Contributor

Re: Some CU CCs/LOCs ignored by EX2 for AZEO?


@Birdman7 wrote:
The reason codes for no revolving credit when you and Revelate only had CU products with balances.... or TL’s over 35K.


That happened on 1 day, but then when I checked other days where the same was true the reason code was not there.

@Revelate was throwing it out as a possible explanation, but when I tested it, it didn't pan out.

 

Meanwhile it had nothing to do with utilization, just with a FICO 2 reason code.


7/1/18: FICO8 EQ 749 TU 783 EX 746 Total revolving limits 713500 (592500 reporting)
Message 8 of 12
Valued Contributor

Re: Some CU CCs/LOCs ignored by EX2 for AZEO?

@SJ what was the difference between that day and the other days? There had to be a difference. There is a reason that code was there.

Are you sure it didn’t affect utilization? Did you check to see if there were any point changes if you would’ve crossed any thresholds if you excluded accounts it may not be counting? I mean were you looking for this? Because what if just certain credit union accounts didn’t count, like DCU? Again who is their payment processor? Hey maybe I’m way off, if so I can drop it. I thought it seemed like there’s got to be a reason and it’s got to be something, but maybe I’m wrong, y’all been doing this much longer than I have.

That’s another thing I’m not clear on, do you get the no revolving balance penalty because of zero utilization or because of zero revolvers with a balance?




Considering BBVA and 5% cards. (Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Message 9 of 12
Super Contributor

Re: Some CU CCs/LOCs ignored by EX2 for AZEO?


@Birdman7 wrote:
@SJ what was the difference between that day and the other days? There had to be a difference. There is a reason that code was there.

Are you sure it didn’t affect utilization? Did you check to see if there were any point changes if you would’ve crossed any thresholds if you excluded accounts it may not be counting? I mean were you looking for this? Because what if just certain credit union accounts didn’t count, like DCU? Again who is their payment processor? Hey maybe I’m way off, if so I can drop it. I thought it seemed like there’s got to be a reason and it’s got to be something, but maybe I’m wrong, y’all been doing this much longer than I have.

That’s another thing I’m not clear on, do you get the no revolving balance penalty because of zero utilization or because of zero revolvers with a balance?

1. Credit unions are counted the same as banks, in my experience.

 

2. When all revolving accounts are reporting a zero balance, many folks seem to get a penalty of 15 points or so in FICO 8, which goes away as soon as they have an account reporting a balance.


7/1/18: FICO8 EQ 749 TU 783 EX 746 Total revolving limits 713500 (592500 reporting)
Message 10 of 12