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TU Fico 4: Amount owed on revolving accts too high?

Your FICO® Scores can impact your loan interest rates, terms, approvals and more.
Super Contributor

TU Fico 4: Amount owed on revolving accts too high?

I thought this was an odd reason statement on my TU Fico 4 score... "Amount owed on revolving accounts is too high."  I've typically always had the 2 reason statements length of time accounts have been established and length of time revolving accounts have been established, but this month I'm seeing the one quoted above in place of the revolving accounts length one.  I've got more accounts with reported balances now compared to my last pull, but I'd expect the "too many accounts with balances" statement to come up on the list, not amounts owed on revolvers.  When I think of amounts, I think of dollars, but in terms of FICO scoring I would assume percentages on the revolvers would matter.  While I have balances reported on all of my revolvers, none of those balances exceed probably 4% or so of the CL.  Any thoughts?

Message 1 of 13
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Valued Contributor

Re: TU Fico 4: Amount owed on revolving accts too high?


@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

I thought this was an odd reason statement on my TU Fico 4 score... "Amount owed on revolving accounts is too high."  I've typically always had the 2 reason statements length of time accounts have been established and length of time revolving accounts have been established, but this month I'm seeing the one quoted above in place of the revolving accounts length one.  I've got more accounts with reported balances now compared to my last pull, but I'd expect the "too many accounts with balances" statement to come up on the list, not amounts owed on revolvers.  When I think of amounts, I think of dollars, but in terms of FICO scoring I would assume percentages on the revolvers would matter.  While I have balances reported on all of my revolvers, none of those balances exceed probably 4% or so of the CL.  Any thoughts?


BBS...I just looked at the last scores I had on fico 04, and fico 02. They have 4 reasons including too high of a balance on revolvers. I guess the one account that reports a balance is why, and that one is the one I let my sister use and she pays the bill. I think they want to just list something on those earlier versions. All my fico 08 scores say due to my exceptional score there are no significant negative factors to report. I will be honest though, due to my age, I do not think I will ever buy another house so I do not really monitor any scores except the fico 08 and fico 09...basically the scores I am given for free at one of my credit card issuers or Langley FCU. The earlier versions are all 50-70 points lower. My theory is that those scores ar intentionally lower because they determine mortgage rates for 30 years. I think that is why mortgage lenders use those instead of fico 08 scores....if it results in an average of 1% higher interest rates, that translates to millions of dollars extra profit to the mortgage lenders. Just my honest opinion.

TU fico08=836 06/28/19
EX fico08=821 07/10/19
EQ fico08=826 07/04/19
EX fico09=811 07/03/19
EQ fico bankcard08=843 06/29/19
Message 2 of 13
Highlighted
Senior Contributor

Re: TU Fico 4: Amount owed on revolving accts too high?


@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

I thought this was an odd reason statement on my TU Fico 4 score... "Amount owed on revolving accounts is too high."  I  When I think of amounts, I think of dollars, but in terms of FICO scoring I would assume percentages on the revolvers would matter.  While I have balances reported on all of my revolvers, none of those balances exceed probably 4% or so of the CL.  Any thoughts?


Fico looks at both utilization and amount owed as separate metrics. The amount owed is considered in aggregate. This has been discussed in prior threads. Best I could tell looking at my own data is a low end amount owed threshold might be in the $3k to $6k range. Perhaps there are multiple thresholds. If you review the Fico reason code list, you will see separate reason statements for amount owed vs utilization.

 

https://crecreditservices.com/resources/education/fico-score-factor-codes/

Fico Score Factor Codes

Better Credit…Better Options

NIU = Not in use for this scoring model
IS = Industry Specific Option

 

Experian

Equifax

Transunion

Reason Code

(Fico II/III)

(Beacon 5.0)

(FICO 98/04)

Amount owed on accounts is too high

A/01

01

01

Level of delinquency on accounts

B/02

02

02

Too few bank revolving accounts

C/03

NIU

NIU

Proportion of loan balances to loan amounts is too high

I/33

33

03

Too many bank or national revolving accounts

D/04

04

NIU

Lack of recent installment loan information

Y/32

32

04

Too many accounts with balances

E/05

05

05

Too many consumer finance company accounts

F/06

06

06

Account payment history is too new to rate

G/07

07

07

Too many inquiries in the last 12 months

H/08

08

08

Too many accounts recently opened

J/09

09

09

Proportion of balance to credit limits is too high on bank or other revolving accounts

K/10

10

10

Amount owed on revolving accounts is too high

L/11

11

11

Length of time revolving accounts have been established

M/12

12

12

Time since delinquency too recent or unknown

N/13

13

13

Length of time accounts have been established

O/14

14

14

Lack of recent bank revolving information

P/15

15

15

Lack of recent revolving account information

Q/16

16

16

No recent non-mortgage balance information

R/17

17

17

Number of accounts with delinquency

S/18

18

18

Too few accounts currently paid as agreed

T/19

19

27

Date of last inquiry too recent

NIU

NIU

19

Time since derogatory public record or collection too short

V/20

20

20

Amount past due on accounts

W/I

21

21

Serious delinquency. Derogatory public record or collection

X/22

22

22

Number of bank or national revolving accounts with balances

23

23

NIU

No recent revolving balances

U/I

24

24

Length of time installment loans have been established

IS

IS

NIU

Number of revolving accounts

IS

IS

NIU

Number of bank or other revovling accounts

IS

IS

NIU

Too few accounts currently paid as agreed

T/27

19

27

Number of established accounts

IS

28

28

No recent bankcard balances

29

NIU

29

Date of last inquiry too recent

NIU

NIU

19

Time since most recent account opening is too short

Z/30

30

30

Too few accounts with recent payment information

I/O

31

NIU

Amount owed on delinquent accounts

34

34

IS

Lack of recent installment loan information

Y/32

32

04

Proportion of loan balances to loan amounts is too high

I/33

33

03

Amount owed on delinquent accounts

IS

34

31

Payment due on accounts

45

NIU

NIU

Length of time open installment loans have been established

IS

NIU

NIU

Number of consumer finance company accounts established relative to length of CF history

IS

NIU

NIU

Serious delinquency and public record or collection filed

38

38

38

Serious delinquency

39

39

39

Derogatory public record or collection filed

40

40

40

Lack of recent auto loan information

98

NIU

IS

Length of time consumer finance company loans have been established

NIU

NIU

98

Lack of recent auto loan information

NIU

NIU

97

Lack of recent auto finance loan information

NIU

IS

NIU

Lack of recent consumer finance company account information

IS

IS

IS

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 3 of 13
Super Contributor

Re: TU Fico 4: Amount owed on revolving accts too high?

Interesting TT regarding the dollars end of it. Just as a data point, my total balances reported were no where near the $6k-$9k range; I landed somewhere around $1500 reported across 7 revolvers.
Message 4 of 13
Senior Contributor

Re: TU Fico 4: Amount owed on revolving accts too high?

I had the below on a 4/2018 3B report with 4 cards reporting balances. An interesting thing to note is my total revolving debt was listed at $620 although the same report lists $5707 as debt on my sole AU card [total debt $6327 with AU]. It would appear the summary has been updated to reflect Fico 8 treatment where my AU account is ignored. However, Classic Fico 04 and Classic Fio 98 both consider the AU account. AU card was at 16% UT - perhaps 9% is a thing for an individual card for the older Fico models based on the 2nd TU reason code shown below.

 

I'll go back and look at older 3B reports for the "amount owed is too high" and see what total revolver/open card balances I had.

 

revolver Classic 3B codes 4-2018.jpg

 

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 5 of 13
Super Contributor

Re: TU Fico 4: Amount owed on revolving accts too high?

Cool, that would be good to know.  I have no AU accounts, so that's not a variable on my profile.  ~$1500 doesn't seem all too high though, IMO, but evidently the reason code can be generated at a value that low.

Message 6 of 13
Senior Contributor

Re: TU Fico 4: Amount owed on revolving accts too high?

OK I found a couple more 3Bs with "amount owed to high" on EQ Classic Fico 04 showing lower balances as follows. 5 of 6 cards reporting balances.

1) 2/2016 - $2239 + $2035 on AU card = $4274.

2) 7/2016 - $2353 + $  576 on AU card = $2929.

 

revolver 3B debt 7-2016.jpg

 

Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 7 of 13
Super Contributor

Re: TU Fico 4: Amount owed on revolving accts too high?

Interesting.  I wonder where the threshold for the reason statement is.  Perhaps $1k?  Maybe I'll try all cards reporting balances, but with a total somewhere in the $900's, shy of $1k and see if it goes away.

Message 8 of 13
Moderator Emeritus

Re: TU Fico 4: Amount owed on revolving accts too high?


@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

Interesting.  I wonder where the threshold for the reason statement is.  Perhaps $1k?  Maybe I'll try all cards reporting balances, but with a total somewhere in the $900's, shy of $1k and see if it goes away.


Would be interested to know.  I saw that on EX FICO 2 with my HELOC being maxxed out (though interestingly I still had all zero revolving penalty which was funny either count or don't damnit) but that was with a balance of like 27k so I understood it. 

 

I'll go back and look at some of my reports and see if I got an interstitial one at some number less than that but I've got some things like CFA's on EX that might push it off the table.  I think FICO 8 might be more forgiving on that front, probably makes sense actually as a result of inflation and consumer debt levels among other things, world was different 15+ years ago.




        
Message 9 of 13
Valued Contributor

Re: TU Fico 4: Amount owed on revolving accts too high?

I’ve always wondered where that line was myself and I suppose it can vary by algorithm but another thought I had is it could also vary by scorecard or aggregate credit limit. Just a thought.




Considering BBVA and 5% cards. (Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)
Message 10 of 13