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The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

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manyquestions
Established Contributor

Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations


@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

General note - Based on scoring data observations over time, Fico 04 and Fico 08 have a slightly different attitude toward new credit (inquiries) as follows:

 

Fico 08 Motto - Some new credit is good, a lot of new credit is bad.

Fico 04 Motto - All new credit is suspect

 


This is a very informational thread. Having several new credit accounts on my files is probably the main reason why my FICO 4 scores are 40 points less than my FICO 8 on my clean files.

Message 111 of 166
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

Fico score evolution.gif

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 112 of 166
tricie17
Frequent Contributor

Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

This is all good but can someone (Moderator) explain why as I was talking to a SUPV at TU yesterday 3-11-2016, I was told that TU only release Vantage scores.  Back story is that my TU went from 567 to 546 in three days and I wanted to know why in which they could not answer.  I then called MyFICO since that is where I got the alert just to find out "how does MYFICO calculate fico scores from a Vantage score."  Sorry MYFICO but that Rep could not help. Through my research, found out that the score change was due to Mortgage flag to TU stating "0" balance and pay and/or pay as agreed which should not cause a drop in score.

Starting Score: 544
Current Score: 661
Goal Score: 700


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Message 113 of 166
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations


@tricie17 wrote:

This is all good but can someone (Moderator) explain why as I was talking to a SUPV at TU yesterday 3-11-2016, I was told that TU only release Vantage scores.  Back story is that my TU went from 567 to 546 in three days and I wanted to know why in which they could not answer.  I then called MyFICO since that is where I got the alert just to find out "how does MYFICO calculate fico scores from a Vantage score."  Sorry MYFICO but that Rep could not help. Through my research, found out that the score change was due to Mortgage flag to TU stating "0" balance and pay and/or pay as agreed which should not cause a drop in score.


Tricie17:

 

Fico scores are calculated from data in that is contained in your credit reports. So your TU Fico scores are based on information in your TransUnion credit report. The Fico scores are not a conversion of a VantageScore 3.0 number. Basically all credit scores are based on data in CRA reports that is scored using criteria defined by each specific scoring model.

 

Why can't you get a Fico score directly from TU? Not sure... However TU is the credit reporting agency that took the forefront in development of VantageScore and remains its strongest backer. So, from what I can tell, it is not in TUs best interest to offer Fico scores directly to consumers. Therefore, VS 3.0 is offered.

 

Side note: It has been well documented on this forum that those with only one open installment loan typically experience a 20 point to 30 point drop in Fico 08 score when the loan is paid off (zero balance) and closed. You won't see that type of shift in your Fico 04 scores.

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 114 of 166
tricie17
Frequent Contributor

Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

Thank you.  Well understood but please give some feedback.  I have a a secured installment loan from penfed that will be paid off 3-28-16 with timely reporting each month and two cc as authorized user..  Where do I go from here if I lose the installment reporting?  If TU was reporting from a Vantage score model, how come MYFICO TU lowered. Currently EQ=564 TU=546 EX=605 all fico scores.

Starting Score: 544
Current Score: 661
Goal Score: 700


Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
Message 115 of 166
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations


@tricie17 wrote:

Thank you.  Well understood but please give some feedback.  I have a a secured installment loan from penfed that will be paid off 3-28-16 with timely reporting each month and two cc as authorized user..  Where do I go from here if I lose the installment reporting?  If TU was reporting from a Vantage score model, how come MYFICO TU lowered. Currently EQ=564 TU=546 EX=605 all fico scores.


You get another secured installment loan from Penfed or another institution.  If you want to play the FICO strategist game, you simply pay it down to 5% balance and then let it sit kicking a dollar every six months or whatever to the loan to keep inactivity fees away.

 

FICO 8 wants to see open installment loans, and at pretty installment utilizations too.  For whatever reason it doesn't keep track of the length of payments on this calculation, it simply makes the assumption that any installment loan that was paid nearly off, must have a pretty swell history! Cat Tongue

 

Long and too awkward thread which I never found time to clean up properly:

 

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Installment-tradeline-utilization-thread/...




        
Message 116 of 166
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

Did you know that Fico 08 classic and Fico 08 Mortgage are different models? I didn't until yesterday.

 

Fico 08 Classic has 12 scorecards and Fico 08 Mortgage has 17 scorecards - with 5 scorecards being allocated toward evaluating the future risk among mortgage consumers (according to the cashmoneylife article).

http://cashmoneylife.com/fico-8-mortgage-score-could-make-it-harder-to-get-approved/

 

Anyway, here is a score comparison graph and chart based on Experian data and some associated links.

 

EX percentileMortgage F08Classic F08
5519498
10549532
20597589
30637640
40672683
50703716
60735744
70771773
80803797
90834818
95848

830

 

Mortgage Fico 08.jpg

 

https://www.experian.com/assets/consumer-information/brochures/risk-based-pricing-rule/booklet-0714-...

https://www.experian.com/assets/consumer-information/brochures/risk-based-pricing-rule/booklet-0714-...

 

Below is a re-post of a table and graphs comparing score distributions of various Fico scoring models (along with Vantagescore). The data makes more sense here than in the bankcard thread.

 

Model comparisons.jpg

 

EX PercentileClassic 08Classic 04Classic 98Bankcard 08Bankcard 04Bankcard 98NexGen IIVS 3.0EX NE
10532554551528556552521521609
20589606599586605594584551636
30640651645634647638636589657
40683687684678685681681644681
50716718721714722723726671713
60744751756747761761773698750
70773780783783797793818741779
80797799802812823820853781802
90818816819837844841883809

823

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 117 of 166
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

I'm sorry to be negative but the variety of FICO scores is a HUGE problem. I recently paid off 90% of my credit utilization and each of the three credit agencies have recognized this fact. No missed payments in over 5 years and all other factors are solid. The newest FICO version on this website has my score at a 707- but three different banks (soft pulls) are using the "old version" which has my score at 651...!!!?? I had the banks review my report line by line and allhad the same accounts as paid off. If FICO is still aloowing te banks to use the old versions- what's the point in paying this website for a "new version" score. And how can two exact same credit reports have a plus 50 point difference. Frustrating is not even close to the worid I would use...

Message 118 of 166
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations


@Anonymous wrote:

I'm sorry to be negative but the variety of FICO scores is a HUGE problem. I recently paid off 90% of my credit utilization and each of the three credit agencies have recognized this fact. No missed payments in over 5 years and all other factors are solid. The newest FICO version on this website has my score at a 707- but three different banks (soft pulls) are using the "old version" which has my score at 651...!!!?? I had the banks review my report line by line and allhad the same accounts as paid off. If FICO is still aloowing te banks to use the old versions- what's the point in paying this website for a "new version" score. And how can two exact same credit reports have a plus 50 point difference. Frustrating is not even close to the worid I would use...


The use of credit scores at all is optional, but admittedly they've become pretty ingrained in the credit market.  Neither FICO nor anyone else can dictate what credit score a lender uses, not all of them are designed with the same purpose, and while FICO certainly encourages lenders to switch to the newer ones as they become available, lenders by their nature are a hugely conservative bunch and they're very slow to switch up models which are working for them (read as making them money) without very careful consideration.

 

It's suboptimal but such is the world we live in.  There's a bunch of scores sold on this website, the FICO 9 (newest) ones were only introduced last year and it'll probably still be another year or two before there's any major adoption of them, possibly more than that actually.

 

End of the day it's the report data that matters as a lender can pull whatever XYZ score or even use their own... or not use one at all, so focus on creating a pretty report, which in turn will equate to a pretty score no matter what algorithm or lackthereof is chosen.  




        
Message 119 of 166
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: The many flavors of FICO:__Editions, versions, and variations

I understand your reply and appreciate the post but a difference ofover 50 points from te "old" version to the "new" version is an algorithm error on thepart of FICO. The FICO systme is flawed if two banks can pull the same exact credit report- line for line- and be over 50 points off. There is no arguing that point. This is why companies like SoFi are moving away from FICO. Unless FICO inputs an ability to pay formula into their equation- it will become antiquated. Picture person A and person B. A has a salry of 75k per year and the same exact credit utilization/history/etc as B. Person B has a salary of 500k per year. In the monds of FICO- A and B should have the same credit score. Blasphemy!! Progress or get left behind...

Message 120 of 166
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