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Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?

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Established Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?

This completely sheds some light on something I experienced, too! I had a Cap1 card from my ex that was showing up on EX as an AU card. I left it be for the longest time because it always showed a $0 balance with no balance or payment history. One day out of the blue the balance jumped up to like 25% util and all of the history of balance and payment magically appeard on it out of no where but my score went up about 15 points or so. I disputed the account because I did not want it actively reporting on anything. After I disputed it my score droped back down again during the couple days it was in dispute, then when it was completely removed, went back up another 13-14 points. I alwasy thought that was a weird situation, but had very limited understanding of FICO back then, as well as a lot of other things going on all over the place with my reports at the time.  


FICO 8 10/20: EX 747 EQ 746 TU 732
"Friends don't let friends earn 1% cash back."
Message 11 of 32
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Valued Member

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?


@Birdman7 wrote:
They are equal typically, as far as I’ve seen. I have not seen a separate or different negative reason code.

Is this penalty just for FICO 8 or also Mortgage scores?

Message 12 of 32
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Regular Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?


@Colorado303720 wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:
They are equal typically, as far as I’ve seen. I have not seen a separate or different negative reason code.

Is this penalty just for FICO 8 or also Mortgage scores?

 

Fico 8 for me and my Fico 2 for mortgage was 745 on 08/17 and today its 748....


 

Message 13 of 32
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Valued Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?


@Birdman7 wrote:
They are equal typically, as far as I’ve seen. I have not seen a separate or different negative reason code.

I wonder if the AU at Zero penalty is entirely related to AAoA dropping temporarily - for internal scoring purposes only - due to exclusion of all AU lines.

27 FICO Scores + 3 VS3. MTG (Mortgage), AUT (Auto), and BKC (Bankcard) are scores 5,4, and 2 from the top.

Keeper of the Scrolls of ResilienceEQ FICO Resilience Index Score Leaderboard

46 forum members have shared this new credit score. Share yours today!

Message 14 of 32
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Super Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?


@CassieCard wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:
They are equal typically, as far as I’ve seen. I have not seen a separate or different negative reason code.

I wonder if the AU at Zero penalty is entirely related to AAoA dropping temporarily - for internal scoring purposes only - due to exclusion of all AU lines.


This is along the lines of what I think also. I have no experience with AU accounts on my reports, but it would seem possible that the AU history kind of disappears when that card reports zero. AU are typically added to provide a long history of good payments. If that is removed from the report, then the cardholder is back to their personal set of cards for scoring.

High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
Message 15 of 32
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Super Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?

This is only for version 8 and forward. The mortgage scores are not affected by this irregularity. Authorized user accounts are treated like a regular account on the mortgage scores.

That’s an interesting theory Cassie but how would the penalties be the same number of points as a primary AZ penalty if so? It would vary by profile and almost never match their primary penalty. Am I missing something?
Our FICO scoring wisdom, regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.

Negative Reason Codes/Scoring Factors by CassieCard: Link to Reason Code Chart.

ccquest’s awesome workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.


Oct 2020. Oldest/average varies. (Estimates above.)
Real world maximums for the mortgage scores are:
EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.



RIP: (Forgive typos, mobile. Everything said is JMHO.)
In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR? AoYA? Etc...
Message 16 of 32
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Valued Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?


@Birdman7 wrote:
This is only for version 8 and forward. The mortgage scores are not affected by this irregularity. Authorized user accounts are treated like a regular account on the mortgage scores.

That’s an interesting theory Cassie but how would the penalties be the same number of points as a primary AZ penalty if so? It would vary by profile and almost never match their primary penalty. Am I missing something?

No, you're not missing anything. I was just speculating.

 

Losing 15-20pts, I would expect a reason statement shift - I've always seen them at those levels.

 

With 1 year total credit history - the SSL, only account on file - and before my first 2 cards were showing, I had 2 negative reasons listed on all mortgage scores related to revolving credit use:

 

Short credit history, No recent activity on credit cards, No recent activity on revolving accounts, Seeking credit

 

Same set of reasons on EQ 5, TU 4, and EX 2.

27 FICO Scores + 3 VS3. MTG (Mortgage), AUT (Auto), and BKC (Bankcard) are scores 5,4, and 2 from the top.

Keeper of the Scrolls of ResilienceEQ FICO Resilience Index Score Leaderboard

46 forum members have shared this new credit score. Share yours today!

Message 17 of 32
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Established Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?


@Ficoproblems247 wrote:

This completely sheds some light on something I experienced, too! I had a Cap1 card from my ex that was showing up on EX as an AU card. I left it be for the longest time because it always showed a $0 balance with no balance or payment history. One day out of the blue the balance jumped up to like 25% util and all of the history of balance and payment magically appeard on it out of no where but my score went up about 15 points or so. I disputed the account because I did not want it actively reporting on anything. After I disputed it my score droped back down again during the couple days it was in dispute, then when it was completely removed, went back up another 13-14 points. I alwasy thought that was a weird situation, but had very limited understanding of FICO back then, as well as a lot of other things going on all over the place with my reports at the time.  


I need to correct this as it made me go back and see precisely what happened. I should have actually researched the situation before posting my guess and foggy recollection of what happened, to which I apologize. The actual events were:

AU showing 0: 690

AU showing $547/$1,400: 699

AU disputed and removed: 688.

Scores are EX FICO 8.

 

I made a large long-winded post about the whole situation in this same subforum if you feel like reading it. I am still very curious about how this works. 


FICO 8 10/20: EX 747 EQ 746 TU 732
"Friends don't let friends earn 1% cash back."
Message 18 of 32
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Super Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?


@Ficoproblems247 wrote:

@Ficoproblems247 wrote:

This completely sheds some light on something I experienced, too! I had a Cap1 card from my ex that was showing up on EX as an AU card. I left it be for the longest time because it always showed a $0 balance with no balance or payment history. One day out of the blue the balance jumped up to like 25% util and all of the history of balance and payment magically appeard on it out of no where but my score went up about 15 points or so. I disputed the account because I did not want it actively reporting on anything. After I disputed it my score droped back down again during the couple days it was in dispute, then when it was completely removed, went back up another 13-14 points. I alwasy thought that was a weird situation, but had very limited understanding of FICO back then, as well as a lot of other things going on all over the place with my reports at the time.  


I need to correct this as it made me go back and see precisely what happened. I should have actually researched the situation before posting my guess and foggy recollection of what happened, to which I apologize. The actual events were:

AU showing 0: 690

AU showing $547/$1,400: 699

AU disputed and removed: 688.

Scores are EX FICO 8.

 

I made a large long-winded post about the whole situation in this same subforum if you feel like reading it. I am still very curious about how this works. 



@Ficoproblems247 wrote:

@Ficoproblems247 wrote:

This completely sheds some light on something I experienced, too! I had a Cap1 card from my ex that was showing up on EX as an AU card. I left it be for the longest time because it always showed a $0 balance with no balance or payment history. One day out of the blue the balance jumped up to like 25% util and all of the history of balance and payment magically appeard on it out of no where but my score went up about 15 points or so. I disputed the account because I did not want it actively reporting on anything. After I disputed it my score droped back down again during the couple days it was in dispute, then when it was completely removed, went back up another 13-14 points. I alwasy thought that was a weird situation, but had very limited understanding of FICO back then, as well as a lot of other things going on all over the place with my reports at the time.  


I need to correct this as it made me go back and see precisely what happened. I should have actually researched the situation before posting my guess and foggy recollection of what happened, to which I apologize. The actual events were:

AU showing 0: 690

AU showing $547/$1,400: 699

AU disputed and removed: 688.

Scores are EX FICO 8.

 

I made a large long-winded post about the whole situation in this same subforum if you feel like reading it. I am still very curious about how this works. 


@Ficoproblems247 give me the link and ask whatever questions you like. it appears the final score drop was due to probably difference in ages when it was removed. But you also got a figure in when the balance went up your increasing score would've been higher had the individual utilization not been so high. 

Our FICO scoring wisdom, regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.

Negative Reason Codes/Scoring Factors by CassieCard: Link to Reason Code Chart.

ccquest’s awesome workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.


Oct 2020. Oldest/average varies. (Estimates above.)
Real world maximums for the mortgage scores are:
EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.



RIP: (Forgive typos, mobile. Everything said is JMHO.)
In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR? AoYA? Etc...
Message 19 of 32
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Super Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?


@CassieCard wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:
This is only for version 8 and forward. The mortgage scores are not affected by this irregularity. Authorized user accounts are treated like a regular account on the mortgage scores.

That’s an interesting theory Cassie but how would the penalties be the same number of points as a primary AZ penalty if so? It would vary by profile and almost never match their primary penalty. Am I missing something?

No, you're not missing anything. I was just speculating.

 

Losing 15-20pts, I would expect a reason statement shift - I've always seen them at those levels.

 

With 1 year total credit history - the SSL, only account on file - and before my first 2 cards were showing, I had 2 negative reasons listed on all mortgage scores related to revolving credit use:

 

Short credit history, No recent activity on credit cards, No recent activity on revolving accounts, Seeking credit

 

Same set of reasons on EQ 5, TU 4, and EX 2.


@CassieCard I would expect them in the mortgage scores like I said they treatAU accounts like a regular accounts as far as I know.

 

i'm I'm thinking it's just mistriggering the AZ penalty on the authorized users in version 8 because it appears to be the same number of points. But I could be wrong we definitely don't know for sure. 

Our FICO scoring wisdom, regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.

Negative Reason Codes/Scoring Factors by CassieCard: Link to Reason Code Chart.

ccquest’s awesome workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.


Oct 2020. Oldest/average varies. (Estimates above.)
Real world maximums for the mortgage scores are:
EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.



RIP: (Forgive typos, mobile. Everything said is JMHO.)
In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR? AoYA? Etc...
Message 20 of 32
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