@Anonymous wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:Today I got buried, losing 7 points in both EX FICO 2 and FICO 8, when one of my large limit (30k) credit union accounts went from under 50% to over 50%. The reason codes yesterday and today were identical in both scoring metrics. And the experian.com site listed the correct number of "accounts with balances", excluding none of my credit union accounts and none of my larger limit accounts.
The theories which some of you espouse, that credit union accounts are disregarded for some purposes, and that larger limit accounts are disregarded for some purposes, are simply theories, and for me they do not hold water.
@SouthJamaica maybe you misunderstand? The high credit limit cutoff does not exclude an account from revolving utilization nor number of accounts with a balance. So, of course it would show up in your utilization and number of accounts with a balance!
It excludes them from revolving balances, which are what used to trigger the AZ loss. Now if you would like to prove to yourself that it's not a theory, really all you have to do is go back and read the old thread where you got the no revolving activity code when you had No balances on cards with credit limits under the cut off for EX2.
The fact that you will get an AZ loss when you have no balance on a card below the cut off for EX2, and the negative reason code shift is explicit. So are the plethora of data points proving it.
But we can agree to disagree my friend.
Yes I did misunderstand what you were saying.
@SouthJamaica(I reserve the right to revise my theories based on new information or data.)
But, I think we have established as fact, I cautiously say, that these cutoff's do exist and exclude accounts from "revolving activity."
My theory is that the "revolving activity" metric is determined solely by revolving balances and that HELOCS and other revolvers above the cutoff are excluded from revolving balances.
Who knows, they could be excluded from the number of accounts with a balance metric? I express no opinion either way on that really now that I think about it and solicit the Community's opinion on that.
Apparently they're not excluded from utilization if you had no other changes on your profile? I had initially thought they were hid from utilization as well. But the main purpose of knowing this is to avoid the AZ loss on mortgage scores.
Back to fact: if the accounts above the cutoff are the only revolver(s) with a balance, you get the AZ loss, which supports my theory.
@tacpoly can you determine whether the utilization on your primary cards affected any mortgage scores? There's no doubt that you have to place a small balance on your AU to avoid the AZ point loss, but now we're trying to determine whether the accounts are also excluded from utilization as well as Revolving activity/balances. TIA.
All I can say is that I firmly believe that all of my open revolving accounts, including both larger credit limit accounts, and my credit union accounts, are counted for purposes of number of accounts with balances, and for determining percentage utilization, in both EX FICO 8 and EX FICO 2, which are the scores I monitor daily.
I have no firm opinion on whether they are counted for purposes of assessing the all zero penalty, because it's been too long since I've been in that neighborhood.
@Anonymous wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:Today I got buried, losing 7 points in both EX FICO 2 and FICO 8, when one of my large limit (30k) credit union accounts went from under 50% to over 50%. The reason codes yesterday and today were identical in both scoring metrics. And the experian.com site listed the correct number of "accounts with balances", excluding none of my credit union accounts and none of my larger limit accounts.
The theories which some of you espouse, that credit union accounts are disregarded for some purposes, and that larger limit accounts are disregarded for some purposes, are simply theories, and for me they do not hold water.
@SouthJamaica maybe you misunderstand? The high credit limit cutoff does not exclude an account from revolving utilization nor number of accounts with a balance. So, of course it would show up in your utilization and number of accounts with a balance!
It excludes them from revolving balances, which are what used to trigger the AZ loss. Now if you would like to prove to yourself that it's not a theory, really all you have to do is go back and read the old thread where you got the no revolving activity code when you had No balances on cards with credit limits under the cut off for EX2.
The fact that you will get an AZ loss when you have no balance on a card below the cut off for EX2, and the negative reason code shift is explicit. So are the plethora of data points proving it.
But we can agree to disagree my friend.
Yes I did misunderstand what you were saying.
@SouthJamaica(I reserve the right to revise my theories based on new information or data.)
But, I think we have established as fact, I cautiously say, that these cutoff's do exist and exclude accounts from "revolving activity."
My theory is that the "revolving activity" metric is determined solely by revolving balances and that HELOCS and other revolvers above the cutoff are excluded from revolving balances.
Who knows, they could be excluded from the number of accounts with a balance metric? I express no opinion either way on that really now that I think about it and solicit the Community's opinion on that.
Apparently they're not excluded from utilization if you had no other changes on your profile? I had initially thought they were hid from utilization as well. But the main purpose of knowing this is to avoid the AZ loss on mortgage scores.
Back to fact: if the accounts above the cutoff are the only revolver(s) with a balance, you get the AZ loss, which supports my theory.
@tacpoly can you determine whether the utilization on your primary cards affected any mortgage scores? There's no doubt that you have to place a small balance on your AU to avoid the AZ point loss, but now we're trying to determine whether the accounts are also excluded from utilization as well as Revolving activity/balances. TIA.
All I can say is that I firmly believe that all of my open revolving accounts, including both larger credit limit accounts, and my credit union accounts, are counted for purposes of number of accounts with balances, and for determining percentage utilization, in both EX FICO 8 and EX FICO 2, which are the scores I monitor daily.
I have no firm opinion on whether they are counted for purposes of assessing the all zero penalty, because it's been too long since I've been in that neighborhood.
@SouthJamaica I can go for that. But to refresh your recollection if you will re-read the thread I posted linked above, you will recall when you did not have a balance on any cards under the threshold, you received the penalty and the negative reason code for no revolving activity.
while you were not at all zero, you were for purposes of the EX2 algorithm because you had no cards under the credit limit with a balance.
I too reserve the right to change, learn, evolve, and grow. I used to repeat a lot of things I'd heard in this forum which my experiences later disproved.I don't say them any more.
If I find data points which may tend to support or tend to contradict theories that have been proposed, I may point them out.
I frequently find myself thinking something might possibly be true, and then later learning that it's not true, or may not be true.
So as long as we are not privy to the mysteries of what goes into the FICO algorithms, we are all in a speculative guessing game. And should be wary of passing along as gospel what are merely hypotheses.
