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question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring


@tacpoly wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

@tacpoly wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

@tacpoly EX2 excludes revolvers with a credit limits over somewhere between 26 and $29,000 and higher. TU4 and EQ5 exclude revolvers with credit limits over $35,000. My understanding is the exclusion is from utilization and that it's just on the mortgage models.

 

I don't know of any being excluded on version eight or higher.


@Birdman7  interesting. Does this mean that when my mortgage scores are calculated, it doesn't see any of my cards?

 

@BrutalBodyShots  I meant CC'es. 


@tacpoly theoretically the only potential utilization TU4 & EQ5 should still see is on your authorized user card. utilization on the other cards should be hidden.

 

Is the credit limit low enough for EX2 to see it as well?

 

remember the mortgage scores don't differentiate between primary and authorized user accounts, so it sees the authorized user account as if it were yours and should be your AZEO card, so you don't get an AZ loss. That AU card is perfect!


@Birdman7  This is probably why my mortgage scores are lower (817, 812, 840).  The AU card has a 28K limit.  DH never asks for CLIs, but I better tell him to decline auto increases as well Smiley LOL  


@tacpoly you're probably exactly right!! is the AU card reporting zero balance?


If so, can he post a small balance and you should see an increase on EQ5 & TU4. You are right in the middle of the area that we don't know and need to narrow down.

 

You would be doing a tremendous service to the community if you could test that so we can see whether or not EX2 is counting it. That would allow us to further refine the cut off for the EX2 algorithm which is somewhere between $26000 and $29,000, it is believed.

 

But that could max you at 2 maybe all 3!

-Our Community’s updated scoring wisdom: Link to Scoring Primer.
-For Negative Reason Codes see: CassieCard’s Score Factors thread.
-ccquest’s workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.

Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.

RIP:

(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 11 of 79
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Well maybe not TU, that would be 27 points, but it would give you a nice increase I think.
-Our Community’s updated scoring wisdom: Link to Scoring Primer.
-For Negative Reason Codes see: CassieCard’s Score Factors thread.
-ccquest’s workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.

Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.

RIP:

(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 12 of 79
barca
Regular Contributor

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring


@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

@tacpoly wrote:

Once in a while I see a comment about credit limits above $35,000 is excluded from FICO scoring.


I'm not sure anyone knows the exact numbers, but I think the $35k thing is for some of the older models.  The newer ones (say Fico8+) I have heard the cutoff limit estimated to be north of $60k.  If I use a card with a $59,900 limit for example as my AZEO card, it "works" just fine on Fico 8.  I do not have easy access to older model scores though, so I haven't seen what impact that event has on those scores.


if the theory of excluding high credit limits were true - then it must be north of 100K

I will normally do AZEO with my BAC cash rewards card with 99.9K

 

when I reported all zero - I see a score drop of 20 points.

when my balance came back to 7K reported, I got the 20 points back.

This happens for all FICO 8 -  EX, TU, EQ

 

My mortgage remain the same - no change

TU mortgage gained some few points when I reported all zero

Message 13 of 79
BrutalBodyShots
Super Contributor

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

Interesting.  That would suggest that there really isn't any [reasonable] amount that gets ignored by Fico 8... there could be something up in 6 figures, but if that impacted even .1% of the population I'd be surprised.

 

My AZEO card next week is shifting from a $30k line to a $59.9k one, so my expectation is that my scores won't change.  It's like a $400 balance verses a $250 balance or so, making dollars irrelevant as both are below the proposed first dollar threshold of $500.

Message 14 of 79
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

As far as I know no cut off has been identified for version eight
-Our Community’s updated scoring wisdom: Link to Scoring Primer.
-For Negative Reason Codes see: CassieCard’s Score Factors thread.
-ccquest’s workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.

Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.

RIP:

(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 15 of 79
tacpoly
Established Contributor

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring


@Birdman7 wrote:


@tacpoly you're probably exactly right!! is the AU card reporting zero balance?


If so, can he post a small balance and you should see an increase on EQ5 & TU4. You are right in the middle of the area that we don't know and need to narrow down.

 

You would be doing a tremendous service to the community if you could test that so we can see whether or not EX2 is counting it. That would allow us to further refine the cut off for the EX2 algorithm which is somewhere between $26000 and $29,000, it is believed.

 

But that could max you at 2 maybe all 3!


@Birdman7   The card is in use every month and reports a balance every month.  I graphed EX2 scores and AU card balance for the months I have them.  I also noted any activity that might have affected the score, including other cards.  It sure looks like EX2 responds to the changes in the AU balance.  But my data also suggests that EX2 takes charge card balances into scoring consideration -- see the score drop in July.  It seems to be insensitive to my other credit cards (CC1 & CC2).  

 

1.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 16 of 79
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring


@tacpoly wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:


@tacpoly you're probably exactly right!! is the AU card reporting zero balance?


If so, can he post a small balance and you should see an increase on EQ5 & TU4. You are right in the middle of the area that we don't know and need to narrow down.

 

You would be doing a tremendous service to the community if you could test that so we can see whether or not EX2 is counting it. That would allow us to further refine the cut off for the EX2 algorithm which is somewhere between $26000 and $29,000, it is believed.

 

But that could max you at 2 maybe all 3!


@Birdman7   The card is in use every month and reports a balance every month.  I graphed EX2 scores and AU card balance for the months I have them.  I also noted any activity that might have affected the score, including other cards.  It sure looks like EX2 responds to the changes in the AU balance.  But my data also suggests that EX2 takes charge card balances into scoring consideration -- see the score drop in July.  It seems to be insensitive to my other credit cards (CC1 & CC2).  

 

1.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


@tacpoly that's great news now we know the cut off for EX2 is over $28,000 but < $29000!!!

 

Thank you!!

 

Yes, chargecards have a special utilization on EX2, B/HB, separate from revolvers. The only version in use that accounts for them im aware of, but it won't save you from the AZ loss like the AU! (Cuz its not a revolver.)

-Our Community’s updated scoring wisdom: Link to Scoring Primer.
-For Negative Reason Codes see: CassieCard’s Score Factors thread.
-ccquest’s workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.

Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.

RIP:

(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 17 of 79
Birdman7
Super Contributor

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring

@tacpoly  Wait, why no score the 2 months w/o AU balance? And Dec was the high CL card, right?

-Our Community’s updated scoring wisdom: Link to Scoring Primer.
-For Negative Reason Codes see: CassieCard’s Score Factors thread.
-ccquest’s workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.

Correct Ag.Util. under 5% all times. (Oldest/avg varies. Estimates above.)
Real world mortgage maxes are: EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.

RIP:

(Everything said is JMHO and is not endorsed by FICO or MF. I have no affiliation with either, just a grateful member.)
Message 18 of 79
tacpoly
Established Contributor

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring


@Birdman7 wrote:

@tacpoly  Wait, why no score the 2 months w/o AU balance? And Dec was the high CL card, right?


The AU card had a balance. I just didn't get a report during those months. Dec was my next lowest CL, 45k. 

Message 19 of 79
SouthJamaica
Super Contributor

Re: question about high credit lines excluded from FICO8 scoring


@Birdman7 wrote:

@tacpoly EX2 excludes revolvers with a credit limits over somewhere between 26 and $29,000 and higher. TU4 and EQ5 exclude revolvers with credit limits over $35,000. My understanding is the exclusion is from utilization and that it's just on the mortgage models.

 

I don't know of any being excluded on version eight or higher.


You may well be right about this @Birdman7 .  My present situation (see detailed post FICO 8 vs FICO 2)

in which FICO 8 appears to be punishing me for "high revolving balances" while FICO 2 appears not to be, could possibly be indicating that the larger limit accounts -- where the nasty high balances are sitting -- are possibly being disregarded in FICO 2.

Message 20 of 79
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