TRYING OUT THE DV PROCESS

p- · ‎12-31-2009

In this thread I will log my actions trying to resolve collector activity using the DV, or Dispute Validity process. My actions are based on instructions found in these forums.

The debt referenced in this log is from 2000, past SOL to show up on my credit report, so I am not concerned about it dinging my credit. The purpose of this excercise is a test case for the DV process, so that I can find out what works and what doesn't. For purposes of self-education, I am willing to take this all the way to a lawsuit if necessary to learn how to deal with these kind of collectors. Plus they were rude so I want to get them. haha.

I hope to learn all I can from this, and use the knowledge in dealing with other companies that appear on my credit report. For more detailed information on other actions I have taken, visit my full log linked in my signature. Any hints, tips, or sugggestions appreciated.

p- · ‎12-31-2009

Here is my log to date of actions taken regarding this collection. I have saved copies of all paper and cert mail receipts.

______________________________________________________

6/15/2009 ON JUNE 15 2009 I RECEIVED A LETTER (ENCLOSED) MAILED TO MY ********* ADDRESS FROM NCC CLAIMING THAT I OWE THEM $349, BUT THEY WILL SETTLE FOR 174.50. AS I DID NOT RECOGNIZE THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR, I BEGAN REVIEWING OLD RECORDS TO SEE IF THIS DEBT WAS LEGITIMATE.

7/9/2009 11:25 AM PDT AFTER DETERMINING THAT THIS WAS NOT A LEGITIMATE DEBT, I CONTACTED NCC BY PHONE USING THE PHONE NUMBER AT THE TOP OF THE LETTER, ***-***-****. I CALLED AT APPROXIMATELY 11:25 AM PDT. THE CUSTOMER SERVICE REP DID NOT GIVE HIS NAME. HE SAID THAT THIS WAS FROM THE YEAR 2000. AFTER HEARING ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR, BILLING ADDRESS, AND DATE OF THE BILL, I DETERMINED THAT THIS COULD NOT BE A LEGITIMATE DEBT. I INFORMED HIM THAT THERE MUST BE SOME MISTAKE, AND THAT THE DEBT WAS TOO OLD FOR HIM TO DO ANY COLLECTION ACTIVITY OR REPORT TO CREDIT AGENCIES. HE THEN TOLD ME "WE HAVE YOU ON THE CALLER I.D. AND WE'LL JUST CALL YOU UNTIL YOU PAY YOUR BILLS!". HE THEN IMMEDIATELY DISCONNECTED.

7/9/2009 11:30 AM PDT I IMMEDIATELY DRAFTED A REGISTERED LETTER (ENCLOSED) TO NCC DISPUTING THE VALIDITY OF THE DEBT, AND REQUESTING A FULL, DETAILED VALIDATION. I ALSO REQUESTED THAT THEY CEASE ALL COLLECTION ACTIVITY UNTIL THIS VALIDATION IS SATISFIED, AND REQUESTED THAT ALL FUTURE COMMUNICATIONS BE DONE IN WRITING. I SPECIFICALLY INFORMED THEM THAT ANY TELEPHONE COMMUNICATIONS WOULD BE CONSIDERED HARASSMENT, AND THAT I WOULD TAKE ANY LEGAL ACTION NECESSARY. 7/9/2009 12:15 PM PDT ABOVE REFERENCED LETTER WAS SENT VIA US POSTAL SERVICE CERTIFIED MAIL, WITH A REFERENCE NUMBER OF **** **** **** ****. I HAVE ATTACHED THE RECEIPT WITH MY COPY OF THE LETTER AND ENCLOSED IT IN THIS SAME FILE.

12/1/2009 2:28 PM PST I HAVE YET TO RECEIVE ANY RESPONSE WHATSOEVER FROM MY REQUEST.

12/10/2009 ON DECEMBER 10TH I RECEIVED A LETTER DATED 12-1-2009 FROM MJ HECKER & ASSOCIATES, PC CLAIMING TO HOLD WHAT APPEARS TO BE THE SAME DEBT REFERENCED IN THE LETTER FROM NCC.

12/31/2009 11:14 AM PST AFTER CONFIRMING THAT THIS WAS NOT A LEGITIMATE DEBT, I DRAFTED A REGISTERED LETTER (ENCLOSED) TO MJ HECKER & ASSOC DISPUTING THE VALIDITY OF THE DEBT, AND REQUESTING A FULL, DETAILED VALIDATION. I ALSO REQUESTED THAT THEY CEASE ALL COLLECTION ACTIVITY UNTIL THIS VALIDATION IS SATISFIED, AND REQUESTED THAT ALL FUTURE COMMUNICATIONS BE DONE IN WRITING. I SPECIFICALLY INFORMED THEM THAT ANY TELEPHONE COMMUNICATIONS WOULD BE CONSIDERED HARASSMENT, AND THAT I WOULD TAKE ANY LEGAL ACTION NECESSARY.

12/31/2009 11:50 PM PST ABOVE REFERENCED LETTER WAS SENT VIA US POSTAL SERVICE CERTIFIED MAIL, WITH A REFERENCE NUMBER OF **** **** **** ****. I HAVE ATTACHED THE RECEIPT WITH MY COPY OF THE LETTER AND ENCLOSED IT IN THIS SAME FILE.

p- · ‎12-31-2009

Here is a copy of the DV letter I sent to both Collectors:

_____________________________

CERTIFIED MAIL #: _______________________________________________________

*********

Re: *********

Acct # : *********

Original Creditor Name: *********

Original Creditor Acct # *********

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice received 10 DEC 2009. Be advised that this is a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (b) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.

This is NOT a request for “verification” or proof of my mailing address, but a request for FULL MEDIA VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that (a) the account is valid, (b) the amount allegedly owed is accurate, and (c) I have a contractual obligation to pay MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. for this alleged debt.

All of the following MUST be provided to adequately validate the authenticity of the alleged debt AND provide proof of my contractual obligation to MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. for this alleged debt:

• Signed credit application between myself and the original creditor

• Copies of all signed vouchers from the date account was opened until default

• Copies of all statements from the date account opened until default

• Proof of the statute of limitations

• Proof of agreement that you were hired by the Original creditor (creditor as defined by the FDCPA) or

• A copy of the contract MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. purchased the alleged debt.

• If the alleged debt was purchased, provide a copy of an agreement between MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. and myself, signed by me, stating that I have a contractual responsibility to MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. for the alleged debt.

• Provide proof that MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. is bonded/licensed for debt collecting in the State of California.

Be advised that failing to provide ALL of the media requested to validate the alleged debt will invalidate any and all claims MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. is asserting regarding this alleged debt. If MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. can NOT provide all of the validation media requested above, ALL collection efforts MUST be stopped and the account MUST be DELETED from MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. If you can NOT validate your claim, you can NOT, by law, collect on it, or SELL it to another collection agency. Also, reporting a debt to the credit reporting agencies that can not be validated is a violation of the FCRA (Fair Credit Reporting Act), and carries a $2500 fine to be paid to me. I have two years to decide if I want to pursue this matter. PLEASE GIVE THIS MATTER THE ATTENTION IT DESERVES.

If your offices are able to provide all of the validating media as requested, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information, and during such time, all collection activity must cease and desist.

I am also stating, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment, and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by United States Postal Service.

Best Regards,

*********

p- · ‎12-31-2009

So, the first CA didn't bother to respond to my DV, instead it looks like they sold the debt to another CA. Can I sue them for doing that after I disputed the validity?

If these people continue to attempt to collect, at what point is it harrassment? At what point can I sue them if ever?

Any help appreciated, thanks.

RobertEG · ‎12-31-2009

IMHO, I proffer that you need to uderstand what the DV process is, and what it is not.

DV under FDCPA 809(b) is primarily for the purpose of ceasing active collection activity until the CA chooses to verify the debt.

The FDCPA does not set any period for verification, and in fact, does not even require any verification. Ever.

So failure to verify is not itself grounds for any legal action under the FDCPA.

If the collection is no longer reporting in your CR, I see no actionable complaint under the FCRA.

I thus dont see any legal harm being done to you at this point, and thus no grounds for legal action.

I would let it die.

Message Edited by RobertEG on 12-31-2009 05:57 PM

RobertEG · ‎12-31-2009

Different federal circuits have established widely divergent case law on what satisfiies the clearly ambiguous reqirement of FDCPA 809(b) for "verification of the debt." It is by no means an established fact that verification MUST include:

• Signed credit application between myself and the original creditor

• Copies of all signed vouchers from the date account was opened until default

• Copies of all statements from the date account opened until default

• Proof of the statute of limitations

• Proof of agreement that you were hired by the Original creditor (creditor as defined by the FDCPA) or

• A copy of the contract MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. purchased the alleged debt.

• If the alleged debt was purchased, provide a copy of an agreement between MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. and myself, signed by me, stating that I have a contractual responsibility to MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. for the alleged debt.

• Provide proof that MJ HECKLER & ASSOC. is bonded/licensed for debt collecting in the State of California.

The CA is not the OC, and does not have information any detailed OC account transaction records as part of any normal business records they maintain. Their internal contracts with the OC are company business. Bonding is a state, and not federal, requirement, and thus has no place in the verification process under federal statute. Expiration of the statute of limitations is solely your obligation to prove as part of any defense in court, and is never the burden of the CA/plaintiff to establish for you as part of any verification of the debt prior to any legal action.

And what if they dont provide all that you demand? It simply means that they have not verified to your satisfaction. So they just cannot resume active collection activity.

p- · ‎01-02-2010

So what is "active collection activity" defined as? Can they continue to send me mail? They can't call me once I notify them not to in writing, right? Does their inability to verify to my satisfaction keep them from reporting to the CB or filing suit? I know this one is past SOL, but if it wasn't, would this action prevent that?

If not, then why send a DV letter in the first place?

Thanks,

p- · ‎06-23-2011

FYI, I never heard from them again... But I kept the file and certified mail tags. Guess they went to scavenge someone else.

Anonymous · ‎06-23-2011

@p- wrote:
So what is "active collection activity" defined as? Can they continue to send me mail? They can't call me once I notify them not to in writing, right? Does their inability to verify to my satisfaction keep them from reporting to the CB or filing suit? I know this one is past SOL, but if it wasn't, would this action prevent that?

If not, then why send a DV letter in the first place?

Thanks,
Active collection activity include phone and mail. If you mail them the cease and desist, then yes, they cannot communicate to you except for the exception of letting you know that they received your request and they may exercise alternative remedies. Their inability to verify to your satisfaction does not prevent them from continuing to report to the CRA's. However, they will notate the account as "consumer diputes this."

The FTC stated that DV is intended to assist the consumer when a debt collector inadvertently contacts the wrong consumer as the start of his collection efforts.