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Chase beat PenFed

Loquat
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@dunn2500 wrote:

@Loquat wrote:

@Crowhelm wrote:

@Loquat wrote:

@roughdraff wrote:

They can refuse to sell to anyone but only within legal constraints. If they refuse to sell a vehicle thats available for sale to a consumer and /or a financial institution because it solely is in the interest of the dealership, That my friend is Unfair Business Practices, that is illegal Mr. former finance manager.


@roughdraff You can disagree with it as much as you like but it doesn't make it wrong or illegal. Dealerships can and will employ such practices anytime it benefits them.  Our dealership was selectively audited by the attorney general a few times in my 10+ years there and while there may have been a hand slap for one thing or another, this certainly wasn't a reason...and there have been folks such as yourself who have tried to make this very argument and found it to be nothing more than a waste of their time.  In the very last sentence of your post you drove home my point "...That my friend is Unfair Business Practices..." with a focus on "unfair".  It may be "Unfair" but it isn't "illegal". 

 

Like I mentioned before, you can show your distaste for how they go about business by spending your dollars elsewhere but that's the only option you have in this scenario.  As long as a dealership doesn't violate any discrimination laws they can go about business in this situation, any way they choose. 


And then those same dealerships wonder why people have such a low opinion of car dealerships. I think you just demonstrated really well why we don't trust them. But by now I know how to deal with it. Our last two purchases were smoking deals. It required a 200 mile plus trip to another dealer for one, but I got what I wanted nevertheless. Funny how the local dealer called me afterward and said we would have matched the price. Really? I told you what I wanted at what price and you told me that is impossible on a new vehicle/model. Guess I found the impossible, lol.


@Crowhelm Truth be told, most dealerships don't care about consumer opinions of them.  Most of them know how the general public views them and their line of work.  Being hated comes with the job and the business.  Truth of the matter is, for every one customer that refuses to buy from them, there will be a line of others who will.  I'm not saying that's how it should be but it is what it is.  Some of the really bad dealerships will faded away but a good amount of them won't. 

 

The feeling you described isn't just something that exist in the auto industry.  You have people who swear they'll never shop at Walmart again because Target treats them better.  The same for folks who will never shop at Sam's Club but will happily spend money with Costco.  Some folks will never buy another Chevy because it's junk to them and Honda is better.   And as you and I both know, Walmart, Sam's Club, and Chevy are still in business today despite those who have sworn them off. 

 

The auto industry isn't any different.  When I was in the business I really didn't care what most thought of me because I have a pretty good idea already...but at the end of the day, I can't pay my mortgage with likes so those who passed through my office served one purpose...to help me pay my bills by purchasing products I had to sell at the highest interest rate I could get them to swallow.

 

I have since left the dealership life behind but I do miss it sometimes.


very true.......plenty of dealerships near me that get horrid reviews for bad business practices, people infuriated on reviews dating back years claiming how they got ripped off and going to call BBB and start legal actions and blah blah blah but they are still one of biggest dealerships for that brand ..........i would imagine in this case they wouldnt outright say its because your paying with cash.....be more along the lines of "oh that car already sold and we forgot" or some other excuse..........**bleep** straight they will refuse and do it all the time for various reasons........cant think of another business that pisses more people off than the car business, maybe the illegal drug business trade but idk, lol

 

exactly correct for every 1 that wont use them there is a line out the door that will.........they use basic human traits and sheer volume of customers to make it work.........


@dunn2500 You are spot on.  The car you're interested in today is one someone claimed yesterday, and is taking delivery of it today.  Is it true?...probably not, but the customer can't prove it and the dealership still won't sell it if they truly want house financing as the condition of selling the vehicle. 

 

I understand why folks get upset with dealerships, trust me I do.  I knew it as a consumer before working at a dealership, I knew it while I worked there, and I still know it now.  But dealership tactics haven't changed in many, MANY years.  So when I hear of a customer being upset, my mind always thinks, how have you not learned to play the same games they're playing?  It's not like they've created a new strategy...it's the same things they've been doing...for YEARS!    However with the Internet, it should be criminal for anyone to walk into the dealership uneducated, spend (or finance) thousands of dollars without due diligence of the process.

 

I know of folks who spend more time planning dinner than they do researching about the car buying process.  In the dealership, if you're a victim it's because of your lack of education of the process and it's your own fault.  I feel this way simply because the process of buying a car, and how to not get taken advantage of, which is well documented on probably thousands of websites and YouTube videos.  Heck you can probably even tap a family member, friend, or neighbor can get a good grasp of what you can expect and how to handle the process.

 

Ignorance as it relates to dealerships these days can no longer be an excuse or a reason to cry foul.  If a customers don't do ANYTHING to educate themselves they still hold the ultimate power because they can simply walk away from the deal if they feel it's shady, that the dealership is being pushy, or they simply don't understand what's going on.  

 

To sit there, sign papers for thousands of dollars, and then cry foul later falls on deaf ear with me.  

Message 21 of 27
dunn2500
Frequent Contributor

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@Loquat wrote:

@dunn2500 wrote:

@Loquat wrote:

@Crowhelm wrote:

@Loquat wrote:

@roughdraff wrote:

They can refuse to sell to anyone but only within legal constraints. If they refuse to sell a vehicle thats available for sale to a consumer and /or a financial institution because it solely is in the interest of the dealership, That my friend is Unfair Business Practices, that is illegal Mr. former finance manager.


@roughdraff You can disagree with it as much as you like but it doesn't make it wrong or illegal. Dealerships can and will employ such practices anytime it benefits them.  Our dealership was selectively audited by the attorney general a few times in my 10+ years there and while there may have been a hand slap for one thing or another, this certainly wasn't a reason...and there have been folks such as yourself who have tried to make this very argument and found it to be nothing more than a waste of their time.  In the very last sentence of your post you drove home my point "...That my friend is Unfair Business Practices..." with a focus on "unfair".  It may be "Unfair" but it isn't "illegal". 

 

Like I mentioned before, you can show your distaste for how they go about business by spending your dollars elsewhere but that's the only option you have in this scenario.  As long as a dealership doesn't violate any discrimination laws they can go about business in this situation, any way they choose. 


And then those same dealerships wonder why people have such a low opinion of car dealerships. I think you just demonstrated really well why we don't trust them. But by now I know how to deal with it. Our last two purchases were smoking deals. It required a 200 mile plus trip to another dealer for one, but I got what I wanted nevertheless. Funny how the local dealer called me afterward and said we would have matched the price. Really? I told you what I wanted at what price and you told me that is impossible on a new vehicle/model. Guess I found the impossible, lol.


@Crowhelm Truth be told, most dealerships don't care about consumer opinions of them.  Most of them know how the general public views them and their line of work.  Being hated comes with the job and the business.  Truth of the matter is, for every one customer that refuses to buy from them, there will be a line of others who will.  I'm not saying that's how it should be but it is what it is.  Some of the really bad dealerships will faded away but a good amount of them won't. 

 

The feeling you described isn't just something that exist in the auto industry.  You have people who swear they'll never shop at Walmart again because Target treats them better.  The same for folks who will never shop at Sam's Club but will happily spend money with Costco.  Some folks will never buy another Chevy because it's junk to them and Honda is better.   And as you and I both know, Walmart, Sam's Club, and Chevy are still in business today despite those who have sworn them off. 

 

The auto industry isn't any different.  When I was in the business I really didn't care what most thought of me because I have a pretty good idea already...but at the end of the day, I can't pay my mortgage with likes so those who passed through my office served one purpose...to help me pay my bills by purchasing products I had to sell at the highest interest rate I could get them to swallow.

 

I have since left the dealership life behind but I do miss it sometimes.


very true.......plenty of dealerships near me that get horrid reviews for bad business practices, people infuriated on reviews dating back years claiming how they got ripped off and going to call BBB and start legal actions and blah blah blah but they are still one of biggest dealerships for that brand ..........i would imagine in this case they wouldnt outright say its because your paying with cash.....be more along the lines of "oh that car already sold and we forgot" or some other excuse..........**bleep** straight they will refuse and do it all the time for various reasons........cant think of another business that pisses more people off than the car business, maybe the illegal drug business trade but idk, lol

 

exactly correct for every 1 that wont use them there is a line out the door that will.........they use basic human traits and sheer volume of customers to make it work.........


@dunn2500 You are spot on.  The car you're interested in today is one someone claimed yesterday, and is taking delivery of it today.  Is it true?...probably not, but the customer can't prove it and the dealership still won't sell it if they truly want house financing as the condition of selling the vehicle. 

 

I understand why folks get upset with dealerships, trust me I do.  I knew it as a consumer before working at a dealership, I knew it while I worked there, and I still know it now.  But dealership tactics haven't changed in many, MANY years.  So when I hear of a customer being upset, my mind always thinks, how have you not learned to play the same games they're playing?  It's not like they've created a new strategy...it's the same things they've been doing...for YEARS!    However with the Internet, it should be criminal for anyone to walk into the dealership uneducated, spend (or finance) thousands of dollars without due diligence of the process.

 

I know of folks who spend more time planning dinner than they do researching about the car buying process.  In the dealership, if you're a victim it's because of your lack of education of the process and it's your own fault.  I feel this way simply because the process of buying a car, and how to not get taken advantage of, which is well documented on probably thousands of websites and YouTube videos.  Heck you can probably even tap a family member, friend, or neighbor can get a good grasp of what you can expect and how to handle the process.

 

Ignorance as it relates to dealerships these days can no longer be an excuse or a reason to cry foul.  If a customers don't do ANYTHING to educate themselves they still hold the ultimate power because they can simply walk away from the deal if they feel it's shady, that the dealership is being pushy, or they simply don't understand what's going on.  

 

To sit there, sign papers for thousands of dollars, and then cry foul later falls on deaf ear with me.  


100%......no reason anyone shouldnt get a fair deal in todays world......i got hosed years ago.....just bought my 5th p/u truck a month ago since 2019......got good to great deals on everyone of them.....i did a ton of research and was patient......every single one tried to pull something shady.....customer has all the power as its their money

 

only a few numbers that are important, stick to those and hard to get off track

 

 

Message 22 of 27
ridgebackpilot
Established Contributor

Re: Chase beat PenFed

@Loquat  Thanks for sharing your experiences as Finance Manager at an auto dealership. 

 

Truth is, I don't really care how the dealership makes money (e.g., hidden manufacturer/lender-to-dealer incentives) as long as they offer me a good deal. My favorite, of course, is 0% APR financing from captive lenders, but as you know that's not always available. Still, I'll usually let a dealer run my credit to see the best offer they can come up with.

 

What I can't stand is dealers that tell me I can't have both discounts/rebates and low-interest financing. That will cause me to seek out another dealer willing to offer me both, which I've done many times. It all depands on how badly they want to sell a particular vehicle. I usually shop for last year's model new cars, manufacturer incentives, or end-of-year deals.

 

The other thing that drives me away from dealerships are dealer markups over MSRP. I realize if the market is hot, dealers can get away with marking up vehicles over MSRP, sometimes obscenely by thousands of dollars. But I'll never pay that and instead wait until the market cools down. That's why I'm not buying a new or used car for the foreseeable future; it's a real seller's market right now!

 

Message 23 of 27
increasingmyfico
Regular Contributor

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@roughdraff wrote:

They can refuse to sell to anyone but only within legal constraints. If they refuse to sell a vehicle thats available for sale to a consumer and /or a financial institution because it solely is in the interest of the dealership, That my friend is Unfair Business Practices, that is illegal Mr. former finance manager.


   Not illegal at all. Plenty of legitimate reasons to turn down outside money. Delay in receiving funds for one is a real issue. Sometimes credit unions and banks drag their feet paying dealers. When you finance in house dealers can be paid as quickly as you sign and drive off. If it was illegal I assure you state ags would pounce all over it 


Message 24 of 27
7774x
Regular Contributor

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@Loquat wrote:

@ridgebackpilot wrote:

@dunn2500 wrote:

GM beat pen fed and navy for me last month.....they would rather have the interest i think, heard some dealers arent even allowing outside financing right now, wasnt case for me but ill take the lowest

 

GM was 2.49% and others were 3.19%.....funny thing is i got letters for refinance shortly there after, but havent called to check.....

 

2022  3/4 ton pickup for under MSRP, no ADMs and had a check to buy........i gave dealer one shot to beat them and they did


Couple of issues here: First, I don't believe any auto manufacturer or dealer can prevent you from financing the truck anywhere you wish. It's not up to them to "allow" outside financing or not. You bring them a check, they give you the truck...

 

Second, no one should be surprised that GM gave you a rate that beat the other lenders. Captive lenders almost always can do that, because they offer loans that are subsidized by the manufacturer. That's why lots of folks here have received zero (0) percent APR loans from Ford Motor Credit and the other captive lenders. No outside bank or credit union is ever likely to match that!

 

So, you did the right thing by letting GM Financial bid for your business. On a new vehicle, I always ask what the captive lender can give me. It's almost always the best rate around!


Actually they can, and as a Finance Manager in my previous career, I have done so...many times.  A dealer can refuse to sell you a car for any reason they want as long as it doesn't violate any discrimination laws.  I know it isn't something most want to hear but it's just the truth.  A dealer can refuse to sell you a vehicle if you choose not to finance said vehicle with them.  

 

This isn't something new and it will never go away.  Dealers have many roundabout ways of making money.  Sometimes it's on the price of the vehicle, sometimes it's on backend products, and a good amount of it comes from financing...even if a customer qualifies for 0%.  

 

We all know that in the not so distant past, manufacturers loved to offer rebates to consumers purchasing a vehicle.  Well...these same manufacturers and captive lenders also offer "factory/lender to dealer" incentives.  The criteria changes as often as  consumer rebates and sometimes dealers will give up profit in one area if it means hitting a number and getting a "spiff" in another.  

 

Sometimes that spiff/incentive comes from captive lenders. That means that I'm going to shove "house" financing on most folks until the dealership hits the mark...even if that means taking a loss on a few deals.  I can't tell you how many vacations that GMAC (at the time) paid for me as well as lined my pockets for hitting targeted goals. 

 

So yea, they can refuse to take your outside financing any time they want and there's nothing you can do about it besides shop elsewhere.  It may not feel right from the consumers perspective but it's total legal. 


 Some dealers with Hot  selling cars have  required  financing  with dealer or adios, for years ..now with  all new cars in short supply,  dealers want the finance profit   for all cars ...$2000+ profit  per 

Message 25 of 27
7774x
Regular Contributor

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@Loquat wrote:

@dunn2500 wrote:

@Loquat wrote:

@Crowhelm wrote:

@Loquat wrote:

@roughdraff wrote:

They can refuse to sell to anyone but only within legal constraints. If they refuse to sell a vehicle thats available for sale to a consumer and /or a financial institution because it solely is in the interest of the dealership, That my friend is Unfair Business Practices, that is illegal Mr. former finance manager.


@roughdraff You can disagree with it as much as you like but it doesn't make it wrong or illegal. Dealerships can and will employ such practices anytime it benefits them.  Our dealership was selectively audited by the attorney general a few times in my 10+ years there and while there may have been a hand slap for one thing or another, this certainly wasn't a reason...and there have been folks such as yourself who have tried to make this very argument and found it to be nothing more than a waste of their time.  In the very last sentence of your post you drove home my point "...That my friend is Unfair Business Practices..." with a focus on "unfair".  It may be "Unfair" but it isn't "illegal". 

 

Like I mentioned before, you can show your distaste for how they go about business by spending your dollars elsewhere but that's the only option you have in this scenario.  As long as a dealership doesn't violate any discrimination laws they can go about business in this situation, any way they choose. 


And then those same dealerships wonder why people have such a low opinion of car dealerships. I think you just demonstrated really well why we don't trust them. But by now I know how to deal with it. Our last two purchases were smoking deals. It required a 200 mile plus trip to another dealer for one, but I got what I wanted nevertheless. Funny how the local dealer called me afterward and said we would have matched the price. Really? I told you what I wanted at what price and you told me that is impossible on a new vehicle/model. Guess I found the impossible, lol.


@Crowhelm Truth be told, most dealerships don't care about consumer opinions of them.  Most of them know how the general public views them and their line of work.  Being hated comes with the job and the business.  Truth of the matter is, for every one customer that refuses to buy from them, there will be a line of others who will.  I'm not saying that's how it should be but it is what it is.  Some of the really bad dealerships will faded away but a good amount of them won't. 

 

The feeling you described isn't just something that exist in the auto industry.  You have people who swear they'll never shop at Walmart again because Target treats them better.  The same for folks who will never shop at Sam's Club but will happily spend money with Costco.  Some folks will never buy another Chevy because it's junk to them and Honda is better.   And as you and I both know, Walmart, Sam's Club, and Chevy are still in business today despite those who have sworn them off. 

 

The auto industry isn't any different.  When I was in the business I really didn't care what most thought of me because I have a pretty good idea already...but at the end of the day, I can't pay my mortgage with likes so those who passed through my office served one purpose...to help me pay my bills by purchasing products I had to sell at the highest interest rate I could get them to swallow.

 

I have since left the dealership life behind but I do miss it sometimes.


very true.......plenty of dealerships near me that get horrid reviews for bad business practices, people infuriated on reviews dating back years claiming how they got ripped off and going to call BBB and start legal actions and blah blah blah but they are still one of biggest dealerships for that brand ..........i would imagine in this case they wouldnt outright say its because your paying with cash.....be more along the lines of "oh that car already sold and we forgot" or some other excuse..........**bleep** straight they will refuse and do it all the time for various reasons........cant think of another business that pisses more people off than the car business, maybe the illegal drug business trade but idk, lol

 

exactly correct for every 1 that wont use them there is a line out the door that will.........they use basic human traits and sheer volume of customers to make it work.........


@dunn2500 You are spot on.  The car you're interested in today is one someone claimed yesterday, and is taking delivery of it today.  Is it true?...probably not, but the customer can't prove it and the dealership still won't sell it if they truly want house financing as the condition of selling the vehicle. 

 

I understand why folks get upset with dealerships, trust me I do.  I knew it as a consumer before working at a dealership, I knew it while I worked there, and I still know it now.  But dealership tactics haven't changed in many, MANY years.  So when I hear of a customer being upset, my mind always thinks, how have you not learned to play the same games they're playing?  It's not like they've created a new strategy...it's the same things they've been doing...for YEARS!    However with the Internet, it should be criminal for anyone to walk into the dealership uneducated, spend (or finance) thousands of dollars without due diligence of the process.

 

I know of folks who spend more time planning dinner than they do researching about the car buying process.  In the dealership, if you're a victim it's because of your lack of education of the process and it's your own fault.  I feel this way simply because the process of buying a car, and how to not get taken advantage of, which is well documented on probably thousands of websites and YouTube videos.  Heck you can probably even tap a family member, friend, or neighbor can get a good grasp of what you can expect and how to handle the process.

 

Ignorance as it relates to dealerships these days can no longer be an excuse or a reason to cry foul.  If a customers don't do ANYTHING to educate themselves they still hold the ultimate power because they can simply walk away from the deal if they feel it's shady, that the dealership is being pushy, or they simply don't understand what's going on.  

 

To sit there, sign papers for thousands of dollars, and then cry foul later falls on deaf ear with me.  


buy online..no hassle

Message 26 of 27
7774x
Regular Contributor

Re: Chase beat PenFed


@ridgebackpilot wrote:

@Loquat  Thanks for sharing your experiences as Finance Manager at an auto dealership. 

 

Truth is, I don't really care how the dealership makes money (e.g., hidden manufacturer/lender-to-dealer incentives) as long as they offer me a good deal. My favorite, of course, is 0% APR financing from captive lenders, but as you know that's not always available. Still, I'll usually let a dealer run my credit to see the best offer they can come up with.

 

What I can't stand is dealers that tell me I can't have both discounts/rebates and low-interest financing. That will cause me to seek out another dealer willing to offer me both, which I've done many times. It all depands on how badly they want to sell a particular vehicle. I usually shop for last year's model new cars, manufacturer incentives, or end-of-year deals.

 

The other thing that drives me away from dealerships are dealer markups over MSRP. I realize if the market is hot, dealers can get away with marking up vehicles over MSRP, sometimes obscenely by thousands of dollars. But I'll never pay that and instead wait until the market cools down. That's why I'm not buying a new or used car for the foreseeable future; it's a real seller's market right now!

 


Ask the dealer what cars are  in transit to dealer..that's how I bought mine.. put a deposit ...car delivered 10 days later

Message 27 of 27
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