cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

My Chapter 13 Nightmare

tag
Rw1016
Established Member

My Chapter 13 Nightmare

I'm along time lurker and made a few posts.  I'm looking for any type of advice/suggestions on how to handle this situation. My wife and I have been struggling with a ton of debt ($150k) for many years. We have 4 kids and live in NY.  Over the years, it ballooned to its present amount and life became completely unbearable.  We've tried every single which way to try and tackle this debt but nothing worked.  We looked into debt consolidation plans, debt management plans, making a ton of payment plans with collection agencies and other creditors - we weren't getting anywhere, and were throwing away money we really needed. I remember the day I was served with my first lawsuit and the sheer embarrasment of having my eldest son notify me of that.  The fear I had in dealing this suit.  As a person of very humble means, it was just debilitating. Finally, we concluded that our only real option is to declare bankruptcy.  After speaking with a bunch of attorneys, we settled on one and were ready to file a chapter 7.  Our attorney instructed me that due to our combined income (180k), he could get us under the means test but this was going to be a very aggressive 7.  We know that $180k combined income is a good salary, but living in Brooklyn with 4 kids, as crazy as this sounds, it's simply not as much as it sounds.  I hope I am not coming off here as arrogant about this as that's the last thing I want to convey. In any event, after going through the intake form, I was introduced to the wonderful world of fraudulent transfers.  Over 5 years ago, when our debts wasn't anywhere near what it is today, I was on the deed and mortgage to my parents house.  My parents bought their home in 2000 and basically used my name/credit to purchase the home.  After 15 years, I had enough and wanted off of the house.  So, they structured a deal that I'd sell the house to my brother.  As the seller, I received the sale proceeds.  Obviously I realize that in the eyes of the law, I was the legal owner of that home.  Bu tin reality, it was my parents' home.  I barely lived in that house for a year and a half as I moved out and got married.  After the transaction closed, I transferred the proceeds to my parents.  The reason being, it was obviously their house and the money rightfully belonged to the,.  This important fact completely derailed any chapter 7 filing as I was still in the 6 year lookback period for a trustee to sue my brother and unwind the sale.  Thus, I was told my only option now is to file a chapter 13 plan.  I was told that the transfer wouldn't be an issue like it was in a 7.  After many months of back and forth with this attorney, with many different projected payment plans along the way, I felt that this could actually work.  My case would certainly not be easy.  Although I am married as stated before, I come from a very traditional family where my immigrant parents need their kids to do things that others simply do for themselves.  My father today is sick and old, and my mother barely knows English.  As such, I'd take care of their monthly bills. They paid for it but they'd essentially hand over the money to me to deposit in my account and I would pay their bills.  My attorney advised me that as long as I can prove all of this, it would be ok.  Well, after many months of agonizing, we filed our chpater 13 case over the summer.  The experience was completely traumatizing and truly an emotional rollercoaster.  The trustee, who's known to be a very difficult Trustee, to say the least, filed a motion to dismiss for failure to provide documents.  This sort of stunned me as I provided my attorney everything I was asked. I don't know if my attorney just didn't communicate with me timely but every time I was asked for something, I was barely given a few days to provide it, and the requests for documents had many things.  This happened twice over last summer.  My attorney then filed an amended plan and a hearing on the motion to dismiss was held. After the hearing I was told to provide some clairty regarding this weird bill pay arrangement, to which I meticulously did.  There were two hearings scheduled on the motions to dismiss, which were both adjourned due to the Trustee being sick.  I understand these things happen (especially during Covid) but I felt something is amiss when the motion to dismiss hearing was adjourned for a second straight time.  Finally, a third hearing was scheduled. All throughout this time, my attorney is telling me I haven't heard back from the trustee, which is a good sign, i think the plan will be confirmed etc etc.  A few days before the hearing, I ask the attorney if he needs anything, why hasn't he amended some of the schedules the trustee requested to be amended, etc and I hear that I now need to provide tons of documents in a day or the case will be dismissed.  After telling the attorney that nobody from his office communicated to me any of these requests, I began to work on them.  I must've stayed up throughout the night making sure I have everything and some of the requests were very difficult to meet.  For example, with the sale proceeds I mentioned before, my parents used that to purchase a retirement home in their home country. I was asked to provide the purchase contract, which meant tracking down relatives in a foreign country and have them e-mail me it.  After providing my attorney with all of the documents and noticing how how he went from advising me that this case could not be dismissed, I started to feel impending doom.  I received a call from him this past Thursday with news that has left me shocked, beyond angry, scared and almost suicidal. Although the hearing was scheduled for a motion to dismiss, the Trustee raised the fraudulent transfer issue and the judge agreed and dismissed my case.  Now, after many months of agonizing whether to file even though I was being harrassed and sued by my creditors, after going through a hellish rollercoaster ride with the filing and feeling that my attorney simply filed my case to get his fee, and simply told me things I wanted to hear, I am now faced with dealing with these debt issues, constant calls, threats, potential lawsuits once again for at least another year and a half before I can file again.  I apologize for this very long post but I truy have nobody to turn to or get advice from.  My attorney barely gives me the time of day anymore.  I'd greatly appreciate any comments/insight into all of this.  Thank you.     

Message 1 of 11
10 REPLIES 10
Tomew2000
Regular Contributor

Re: My Chapter 13 Nightmare

All that due to the transferral?   No other issues?  

Message 2 of 11
sccredit
Valued Contributor

Re: My Chapter 13 Nightmare

IMO you need to contact another attorney ASAP

Message 3 of 11
jmw1
Frequent Contributor

Re: My Chapter 13 Nightmare

@Rw1016 

 

In a chapter 13, you have to pass a "best interest of the creditors test" where they should get as much as they would get from a hypothetical chapter 7. As you probably know, if you had chapter 7, the trustee would seek money judgments against your parents and your brother for the fradulent transfers and you would not get your discharge until the judgments are satisfied. And you would not be able to get out of the 7.  In a 13, we have to pretend you are going to pay over 60 months the value of the two fradulent transfer judgments that the chapter 7 trustee would have gotten. That makes your plan infeasible so the 13 trustee has to dismiss. You can't ignore the chapter 7 problem by filing a 13. 

Message 4 of 11
Rw1016
Established Member

Re: My Chapter 13 Nightmare

Thanks for responding.  There are two Trustees in my district.  One is much more reasonable then the other.  When I first filed, my attorney advised me that the reasonable trustee was assigned to the case.  A few days later, I was informed it switched to the former.  This trustee is known to be a complete maniac.  In any event, I can't exactly say I fault him.  He's just doing his job and following the law.  I can readily admit that this transfer looks shady/weird to a neutral third party observer.  I know it wasn't fraud in the sense I was trying not to pay my creditors (at the time I had way less debt and actually cleared most of it up back then).  I know the house was really my parents. My wife, too. My parents too.  But the law doesn't care about these weird situations. When you're on the deed and mortgage, you're the legal owner, and if you transferred anything within the lookback period, you either pay for it or get your case dismissed.Fair or not.

 

To directly respond to your question, he didn't like that they gave me money to pay their own bills.  It was a minor annoyance having to explain and document everything but after doing that, I informed him that I ended this arrangement.  Ultimately, none of that mattered it seems.

Message 5 of 11
Rw1016
Established Member

Re: My Chapter 13 Nightmare

You're spot on but there was only one fraudulent transfer.  Complicating this further is the fact that my parents asked me to hold onto these funds for a few months before they figured out what they were going to do with it.  None of us ever thought I'd be in a position 5 years down the road where this could become an issue.  Had I transferred it right away, I'd have less then a year from now to refile.  

 

What really irks me, however, is that although I genuinely think my attorney is a good person, I feel that he simply fed me misleading information in order to get my case. I did my homework and researched and brought up the fraudulent transfer issue numerous times to him, including our first consultation.  And throughout every phone conversation, meeting or text, I was told not to worry about this and that the Trustee wouldn't force me into a 100% plan based on this fraudulent transfer, and would confirm some sort of plan because they want to make money too.  In fact, I have a text from him saying the transfer would have no bearing on the payment.  Given my desperation at that point, I truly wanted to believe that after years of struggling with debt, this would be a legitimate lifeline and a new fresh start. But it just sounded incorrect based on everything I read. Looking back on this entire saga, I just don't think I had a good attorney. The numbers on my Schedule I and J always changed as if we never had prior conversations detailing all of our income/expenses.  I was very thorough, organized and responsive throughout this entire process as this was truly my only way out.  Based on all of my conversations with my attorney, I get the sense that I was told certain things so he could get a retainer, file my case, adjourn it a few times, until the Trustee had had enough only to get a dismissal. I have absolutely no proof of this, and I know it sounds a bit off but something just didn't add up in the last few months.  To go from hearing the Trustee is requesting documents based on a Motion to dismiss (I always felt that my attorney simply never sent the Trustee the docs requested that I worked very hard to provide) and once they're provided, you'll most likely get confirmed  to hear that the Trustee was now making an issue of the transfer and have the case outright dismissed was a shock to me.  

Message 6 of 11
Tomew2000
Regular Contributor

Re: My Chapter 13 Nightmare

So, the fact that your parents gave you money to pay their bills was an issue?  Seems strange   That seems easy to document

Message 7 of 11
Rw1016
Established Member

Re: My Chapter 13 Nightmare

Curious as to why you're saying that?

Message 8 of 11
Rw1016
Established Member

Re: My Chapter 13 Nightmare

Yes, it was an issue for him.  This Trustee is just looking to dismiss cases. That's how he operates.  Yes, it was very easy to document as I keep a seperate Excel file with their bills, and provided it, along with their invoices and a copy of my bank statements showing the money coming in and going out.  He insisted these cash funds meant I was making more money than the means test showed. So after providing all of this documentation, I simply told my parents I cannot do this anymore. No more cash deposits. no more paying their bills.  I don't know if he even bothered to look at everything I sent.

Message 9 of 11
Tomew2000
Regular Contributor

Re: My Chapter 13 Nightmare

I'm a little confused.  Or maybe the law is different in NY from NJ, where I live. There is no means test here for a ch 13   

Message 10 of 11
† Advertiser Disclosure: The offers that appear on this site are from third party advertisers from whom FICO receives compensation.