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Hi folks.Let me apologize, in advance, for what might end up being a very detailed post.
Okay, this, of course is the rewards card offered by Amazon. I only apped for it during a purchase session when offered a $30 rebate, and to start building a CC collection.This was during last week of NOV, 2008, so card is only 7 mos old. Was instantly approved with a reasonable limit, I thought, and when card came delighted to find actual limit tripled original.
After it started reporting I noticed I never saw the true CL on the CR, but didn't bother about it till this late June. At that time I called and spoke w/a Chase CSR who informed me this was a Visa Signature.They'd given it to me due to my "outstanding" credit history (yeah, right). BTW, I'd originally placed the call to request a CLI which he approved (hard pull, though he said it would be a soft one). I wanted the CLI because during the previous days I started to consider what banks were going to do in the near future by slashing limits, etc. So I began to think about having higher limits to start. And BoA luv button effort had given me the standard 5-7 day notice the day before so I thought, oh well. Also, because DH and I are pondering a home purchase later this year, didn't want to app for any new cards before we decide. Anyway, CSR initially said he'd correct reporting problem with all 3 CRAs.
But a week later, I received a letter explaining more about a NPSL type account, stating some of the benefits, plus the fact that I have, instead of a credit limit, a credit line access, what the difference is, and that it is is not reported by Chase to the CRAs. Additionally, that if I wished, I could change to a different card which would report.
A week later I received another letter congratulating me on the credit line increase, and blah-blah-blah. In the meantime, I began to search the fico forums, other discussion boards and elsewhere on the web to get a better idea about the pros/cons of a NPSL. Which still left me confused.
One week later... I received yet another piece of mail from Chase. The now ever-popular "...Change In Terms" notice. Which, as so many of us now know, tends to look a lot like junk mail.
Anyyyyway...the parts that most concern my account have, first, to do with the actual NPSL, and basically states, each transaction will be approved (or not) at the discretion of Chase, etc., and is exactly what I came across elsewhere on the web. So it's sort of like "I SPY" and I think - oh...yuckk much!!!! Also that the credit access line will be referred as revolving, while any amount over will be known as non-revolving. So what does THAT mean? That for the "privilege" of having a signature card, on one hand it's revolving, on the other it's not, but either way I don't get the credit limit reported to the CRAs? Since I'm somewhat new to this concept, for all I know this may all be kosher. But I am not at all happy about this. Nor will I ever like info like this to be delivered in a manner that resembles a not-so-slight tap on the hand by a teacher holding a ruler.
Now comes the APR info. I don't worry as it would apply to BTs or cash advances, as I just don't do them. As for the purchase APR...the card started with a 13.24%, which wasn't great but was the lowest rate, was manageable, AND lower than that of my very first card, Paypal Plus GEMB which does not negotiate APR ever. So I was pleased. The new purchase APR as of OCT 09 will be (as of the current prime rate) 17.24%. The "principle factor" given for the various term changes was simply to "maintain profitability on you account."
I'm beginning to smell something rotten in Denmark.
I am aware that until the new credit "law" (joke that it will be), CCCs can change your rates, balances, etc., at any time. Even if an account is less than a year old. Even if you are that good customer. But I find it very odd...very odd, indeed, that no sooner do I actually inqure about what kind of account I really have, no sooner do I suffer the effects of a hard pull to get an increase HAPPILY given, I am smacked with "term changes." All in a period of less than THREE WEEKS! I mean, if this too is legal, I just don't know what to think. Is it?
I did call backdoor credit dept; interesting experience but no change to my changes.
Thing is, even before the line increase, at most I used 6-7% of original limit, several times, always paid those off in two or three payments (so well, well over minimums), and even tried a PIF only to find next day right at time of statment cut, only then did they publish the "left over" finance charges, which technically wiped out a PIF. My other cards never do this. If BoA, for example, shows "this is your balance," then that's what it is, and I never get surprised with finance charges after that.
The irony of all this is that two days later Boa came through with my requested CLI, and Amex plus my Paypal surprised me with CLIs too. The one from Amex floored me, considering my two year plus history. (I'm pretty sure even Paypal gave me the account, back then, only becuase of my long AU history with my DH's 27 year history.)
Alright, so this is where I'm at, now. I have till AUG 19, I believe, to opt out of the Amazon Chase, and if I change products (no pulls) to a Chase Freedom I get to keep my limit with a "current" 12.24%, which could (probably would) be rapidly raised anyway. Oh, almost forgot to say, current credit line access, with them, is now 9,000. So between that and the fact of already paying for that hard pull, I'm not quite ready to do an opt out just yet. I think. (Current balance $125)
But, honestly, I'm confused. Even if I didn't have to worry about holding back on apps for anything new due to that potentil mortgage we might take, I have four inquiries, three of which will age to one year by DEC, and the fourth dropping off MAR 2010, and I'd worry about more inquiries just now. Besides, I know all CCCs will try to get away with RJs and CLDs before FEB 2010, no matter how new a card, so I almost feel what's the point, you know?
As for switching from this NPSL account...yes, I get it that to have a Visa Signature is about the "presitge" of it besides the card benefits. But I have other similar benefits with Amex and Boa is a World Points which also has the concierge thing, so I'm not really that impressed with the Signature card benefits, at least for now. Still, would I be shooting myself in the foot, if I'm going to stay with a Chase card, by switching off this "prestige" card for a Freedom card? Are my purchases/patterns on the Signature really watched more closely than on a typical Freedom? Is it really better to have a card that reflects this kind of limit on any or all CRs than to have it only shown as "open," "open revolving," "terms," with only your highest limit used? (I actually don't forsee ever using this kind of limit, but if we get a new house, or just redecorate, it would be nice to know it's there, however long it would last.)
To help anyone who answers, I guess I should state my other limits and Ficos. The BoA is currently 2500, Paypal 5250, Amex 13900 and of course this one at 9000. June TU and EX Fico scores 779 and 780 respectively (from MyFico), last real EX before FEB change 798, new Ex Fako maybe 783 or 785.
Thanks for your patience reading this, and any/all help. I'm open to all suggestions.
@Anonymous wrote:
The banking lobby continues to reign supreme. Ridiculous even the watered down new laws don't take effect until next Feb. There should have been rate limits put in place NOW , not next Feb. And they should have done so for new balances as well. This all assuming the customer isn't late, etc of course. But it's ppl like you and me getting screwed. I have FICOS in your range, util almost always under 10% ,and I've had a limit cut and rate hikes. And it's not Feb yet!Message Edited by ExcellCR on 07-15-2009 01:19 PM
I agree with you, completely.
What's really sad, in general, is that, clearly, folks who participate here and elsewhere, regard credit as a privilege, not a right. They try their utmost to be responsible with that privilege, yet that just doesn't seem to matter to any of the biggies holding the strings. What's sad, for me, is to have a "prophesy" I accidentally made to my father (when I was 13) eventually come to pass, exactly as I "saw" it would. (At the time, it was 1961. Yeah, I'm one of those oldies but goodies.)
One afternoon, he was contemplating his children's futures. Now he and my mother (coming from immigrant parents) never finished high school. So they had to work very hard for everything they wanted. But they built a good life and just as good credit - when credit was actually credit - the importance of which they passed on to us. In my mind, they lived remarkable lives.
Anyway, after talking about other things related to our futures, my father finally said that, his four children receiving high school diplomas and any of them eventually working for a company like Sears and Walgreens (both offered outstanding stability and decent benefits for the times) would be seen by him as a definite generational move "up." That this way they could build the same kind of life he'd been able to have with my mom, or even better. Beside emotional and spiritual cohesion he saw as so necessary for having a good life, he hoped we too would have our homes, that good credit, and the retirement benefits he knew they would both have.
I remember I was looking out the patio window, as he was saying all this. Suddenly, though, I didn't see the patio or backyard, anymore. Instead a picture formed of some imaginary city's downtown area, with people walking to and fro, cars blasting their horns, that typical kind of scenario. The people's faces, though, seemed almost somber. So many frowns, sadness, worry, I thought. I turned to my father, then, and said, "You know what, Dad? I'm not sure what you want for us is going to happen."
"It's funny, in a scary way. I don't think Sears will be like it is now. I see companies breaking apart, and companies joining - I don't know what they call that - but the workers won't be happy about any of that. I think they won't have things you have on your job. Like your pension, maybe. They might even try to bust unions. I think lots of jobs could go away. Other things, too. I see banks closing, Dad, lots of banks closing. People the same age, as me, someday won't be able to buy homes. Plus, I think somebody big, maybe the government, is going to want people to put money away for their lives when they're older, and people will, but then they're going to lose it. It could get bad for them, too. So, I dunno, Dad. I think maybe life is not gonna be so good as it is now. I think it's definitely gonna affect my generation. It feels like companies and banks are gonna end up not caring about us at all. There's gonna be lots of greediness, maybe... Oh Gosh, Dad! I hope I'm wrong, I hope this is just me and my stupid overactive imagination."
I guess it wasn't just my imagination, though.
But the difference between their generation, I think, and those that have followed, is that we all seem to have become a bit too passive. I know others won't agree. I'm sure I will see the eventual rate hike with my Amex and Boa, maybe even the Paypal. But what Chase pulled over so many with earlier WAMU cards is really an outrage. And I do wonder if giving a rate hike less than 3 weeks after a CLI, plus other term changes is completely legitimate, especially since they gave me no reason even though I asked. I don't know if I want to call backdoor credit, again, and this time question all this. I might write those letters, instead, to the various powers that be. (I think they count on all of us not to do just that. Which is why, IMO, things keep getting worse) In the meantime, I really would like it if someone could tell me whether switching from a Visa Signature to a vanilla Visa with them is a good/bad idea. Plus, the idea of them determining, on an account like this, which transaction might not make the cut is appalling.
Thanks, Excell, for your reply.
1) This is typical current Chase behavior. While it is nasty and unfortunate it should not be totally unexpected.
2) Don't be too surprised if you get a CLD from Chase for not using enough of your established CL.
3) It does not sound like a signature card is the correct product for you. You will be a lot happier if you accept the offered product change to the Chase Freedom card.
I've said it before and I will say it again: Chase are haters.