@unsungivy wrote:So, I'm ok with this for smaller mom&pop stores; they're expanding the type of payment they take on a razor-thin margin. I'm ok with my dentist doing this: they have a sign that spells it out on their counter and recommends using HSA/FSA directly.
I'm NOT ok with restaurants (especially sit-down for which 90% of customers would pay with a CC) doing this, and burying the lead. CC swipe fee is the "cost for doing business", and them having it in the corner of the menu (which you no longer have by the time the bill comes) and suddenly the bill differs from what they just ran on your CC without them actually saying anything to you... nope. You won't get repeat business.
It does seem like more places are fobbing off this swipe fee to the consumer rather than absorbing it as the "cost of doing business" or offering a DISCOUNT for using debit or cash.
I'm concerned about this basically ripping off people who don't pay attention, like my 80+yr old parents. They just want to use 1 or 2 cards for everything. For most people (who don't live on these forums) 3% back is hefty enough that they may not have any better in any category, much less as a flat rate. This means that they are either breaking even after more work, or actually spending more money using a CC. (This is where having a 1% debit card would actually trump CCs, but with no protections.)
Thoughts? Anyone else starting to get irate at this shadiness, especially the growing prevalence?
I was complaining about this a few years ago, but at the time I felt like I was in the minority. Seems like its more widespread now. And 3% is being generous, by me its more like 3.99%. I want to say that if businesses do that, I wont take my business there anymore - but now most business are doing it. Kinda kills participating into the Credit Card hobby that we are all fond of. If you don't have a card that gives you 5% CB on food these days, most of the time, its not worth the effort.
It would be nice if these places had a BIG sign at the entrance stating there is a surcharge. Most places have it in small 1pt font on their menus or at their POS. Federal law needs to force them to have specific signage requirements, kind of like the 30.06 CCW laws in TX, which even states the minimum size font and specific wording for "No CCW" signs.
If they system works as it should, I'd just unfreeze my debit and use it at these places, especially restaurants since PayPal debit gets 5% back. But it doesn't work. These places charge on ANY plastic.
I'm not ok with ANY business charging it on a debit card. This 100% violates Visa and MC rules, and I think a provision of the Durbin amendment as well. Businesses are also supposed to line item a CC surcharge. There is a local restaurant that just takes the total and uses their Casio to add 3% and use that as the total for their terminal. No line item on the receipt at all, which is required by Visa/MC.
I still use my PP Debit at restaraunts which charge 3% and make a net 2% CB, but these places get reported to MC and the GA Attorney General Consumer Protection Division.
@dfwxjer wrote:
Funny enough, my FFL and my local liquor store both offer a 5% discount for using cash or debit
This is how it should be done, 100% . Treat debit the same as cash. POS systems these days are smart enough to route a debit transaction properly so it doesn't hit the normal CC interchange network and get hit up with the 3%. Places that charge 3% on everything are using it as a profit center.
@ptatohed wrote:The city I live in offered a 100% money match for buying loaded Master Cards (ex. buy a $100, get another $100) (100% Cash Back??) and they provide a list of establishments in the city that accept these MCs. I still have some of these cards left and, unfortunately, Richie's and Tom's are on the list so I may need to go back just to help use up these MCs. But no more after that! LOL
100% against MC merchant terms to charge a surcharge on a prepaid MC, which these sound like they are.
@dfwxjer wrote:g
The nuance behind this is that if people run their debit card like a credit card (ie not input the PIN in a retail environment) it will run on the credit rails and be open to surcharging
Doesn't matter. Visa/MC rules state that there will be no surcharge on debit, regardless how it's processed. POS system can easily tell if plasic is a debit by using the card's BIN and surcharge appropriately. Places are just using debit surcharging as a profit center.
I own a dive bar, and I absolutely have to charge a fee for credit card usage because MY fees have gotten crazy. I was paying more than 3% with Clover until I switched to another POS system. Now I'm still at 2.8% but it's flat across all four payment networks.
I was losing $10,000-$15,000 a year in processing fees and I need that money just to keep the bar from falling apart.
@DeeBee78 wrote:
I own a dive bar, and I absolutely have to charge a fee for credit card usage because MY fees have gotten crazy. I was paying more than 3% with Clover until I switched to another POS system. Now I'm still at 2.8% but it's flat across all four payment networks.
I was losing $10,000-$15,000 a year in processing fees and I need that money just to keep the bar from falling apart.
For your processing fees you get a service of: funds delivered to bank, funds guarenteed, accounting automated. In addition you can and should have written them off your taxes. If a place cannot survive because the fees are too high then you need to fix the prices or change contractors for processing. Lastly Clover can charge such high percentages only because they provide the terminals too. You need to go buy the terminals and get the processor services as seperate or you will get hit with bundle convenience fees.
