Citi Forward Application - Form 4506-T

[Anonymous]

I recently applied for a Citi Forward card and got a letter in the mail a week later asking me to send them Form 4506-T (which allows them to get a transcript of my tax return). While I don't mind giving it to them, it concerns me that it will not prove much of the information I put on my application form. On my application I put down that my annual household income is 181,175 (because I live with my parents), however only 46,175 of that figure is my own salary (which is what they'll see on my tax info). Further, I got hired full-time in May 2010 after my college graduation, meaning that my last tax return will only have about seven months of my salary. Also, the tax info won't do anything to show my assets, which is one of my stronger points. The way I see it, if I give them this form, it'll literally look like I lied on my application and will probably get denied... do you think this is accurate or am I just being pessimistic?

Also, I was thinking of enclosing a letter with the form, explaining my situation and saying that I would be willing to provide my recent paystubs and bank statements since they would provide a more complete picture. Do you think that is a good idea or should I send only the Fom 4506-T like they asked for?

What I don't understand is that I have had a Citi Dividend card since 2007 and never made a single late payment. They've even upped my CL on that card a few times. And I never had to give them a 4506-T. Plus my credit score as of a couple months ago - my fico equifax score - was 761. I called to ask if I could give them my paystubs, the paystubs of those in my household, and my bank statements, since that's the only way to prove my household income and personal assets, and was flat out told no. I asked them what the tax return would prove that paystubs and bank statements wouldn't prove, and they could not provide an answer. It's idiotic.

I was also thinking of skipping this altogether and writing to the appeals place saying that I refuse to give my 4506-T, but would provide my paystubs and bank statements, and that if that information was unacceptable I would cease business with Citi and seek credit from lenders who consider such documentation as adequate evidence of annual income and assets. But I'm leaning against that because I really do want this card - the rewards are very good.

So I have 4 options:

1. Send Form 4506-T without a letter explaining anything.

2. Send Form 4506-T with a letter explaining my situation and that I'm willing to prove my income/assets in more accurate ways.

3. Don't send Form 4506-T, write a threatening letter to the appeals person.

4. Send Form 4506-T and send a separate letter to the appeals person at the same time.

What do you recommend I do?

Thanks

[smc733]

If someone here has shared your experience, it has been me, with someone who demanded (amex) a full $57 4506.

Even if they ask HHI, they are very well allowed to want to evaluate your individual income, as well, which is likely this.  Assets do not count, they are not interested in static funds that do not replenish on a weekly basis.

Here's what Citi is going to do, if you send them a 4506-t (they will ignore/reject a letter or anything else you send in).  They will adjust your application accordingly, you will still be approved, and if I'm guessing about 25k or so will be your salary.  They'll probably give you a smaller limit, which is fine, because in 6 months, Citi always has the option for a hard-free CLI, where you can list your full income at that point.

My reasoning is this...  What exactly is the HHI on file for the Dividend?  There may be a large discrepancy for that.  Also, Citi has already extended you credit, you're still fairly new to the world of credit <6 years, they're very hesitant to extend you a second line of credit, rightfully so.

I recommend going through with this, the 4506t is free...  The worst that could happen is they give you a smaller limit, or they don't approve you.  (You could just ask to have your dividend converted to a Forward, and ask for a CLI, too).  If you're unsatisfied with the outcome, one additional app won't hurt you, you can always go for Chase Freedom or Discover More.

[Anonymous]

The HHI on the other Citi card would have been higher because when I got it my father was still working, and his income has lowered now that he's retired. I suppose that difference could have triggered it.

I've tried to switch the Citi Dividend to another Citi card in the past but was told that they used to be able to move people from Citi card to another but can't do it anymore. It really sucks too because I probably won't be using the Citi Dividend anytime soon if I get the Citi Forward... basically 1% back vs. 5% for the categories I'd be using it for. It's like, either switch me from this card to this card, or I'll just get this other card and stop using the other one except for a $2 purchase every six months so that it doesn't get cancelled and destroy my credit score. You'd think they would accomdate you for those sort of situations, but no such luck. Maybe they will at least be able to shift some of my CL from Dividend to Forward if I get it. My CL on the Dividend is 5,500... if they give me a Forward with like 500, it's going to be ridiculous, because that's the card I want to use, and every once in awhile I'd like to be able to make a large transaction with it.

Anyways, thanks for the advice. I'm just going to send the form in and hope for the best. If I get rejected I'm going to appeal. I already have pretty good cards (Amazon Chase which gives 3% cashback on Amazon, 2% gas/restaurants, and a Paypal one that gives 2.5% cashback on gas - both of which are over Citi Dividend's 1%, and I buy just about everything over Amazon). It'd be great to have a card that gives 5% back on Amazon though and this is really the only one I can find with a perk of that magnitude.

[android01]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I recently applied for a Citi Forward card and got a letter in the mail a week later asking me to send them Form 4506-T (which allows them to get a transcript of my tax return). While I don't mind giving it to them, it concerns me that it will not prove much of the information I put on my application form. On my application I put down that my annual household income is 181,175 (because I live with my parents), however only 46,175 of that figure is my own salary (which is what they'll see on my tax info). Further, I got hired full-time in May 2010 after my college graduation, meaning that my last tax return will only have about seven months of my salary. Also, the tax info won't do anything to show my assets, which is one of my stronger points. The way I see it, if I give them this form, it'll literally look like I lied on my application and will probably get denied... do you think this is accurate or am I just being pessimistic?

Also, I was thinking of enclosing a letter with the form, explaining my situation and saying that I would be willing to provide my recent paystubs and bank statements since they would provide a more complete picture. Do you think that is a good idea or should I send only the Fom 4506-T like they asked for?

What I don't understand is that I have had a Citi Dividend card since 2007 and never made a single late payment. They've even upped my CL on that card a few times. And I never had to give them a 4506-T. Plus my credit score as of a couple months ago - my fico equifax score - was 761. I called to ask if I could give them my paystubs, the paystubs of those in my household, and my bank statements, since that's the only way to prove my household income and personal assets, and was flat out told no. I asked them what the tax return would prove that paystubs and bank statements wouldn't prove, and they could not provide an answer. It's idiotic.

I was also thinking of skipping this altogether and writing to the appeals place saying that I refuse to give my 4506-T, but would provide my paystubs and bank statements, and that if that information was unacceptable I would cease business with Citi and seek credit from lenders who consider such documentation as adequate evidence of annual income and assets. But I'm leaning against that because I really do want this card - the rewards are very good.

So I have 4 options:

1. Send Form 4506-T without a letter explaining anything.

2. Send Form 4506-T with a letter explaining my situation and that I'm willing to prove my income/assets in more accurate ways.

3. Don't send Form 4506-T, write a threatening letter to the appeals person.

4. Send Form 4506-T and send a separate letter to the appeals person at the same time.

What do you recommend I do?

Thanks

---

5.  Tell them to put their 4506-T where the sun doesn't shine.  

Speaking ONLY for myself, there is no credit card in this universe worth that level of intrusion into my personal business.  I would never apply for a credit card that requires it, and if asked for a 4506-T from one of my current credit card lenders, I would close my account instantly no matter the size of my CL or how long I've had it.   Customers are volunteers, not hostages.

[smc733]

Try calling one of the backdoor numbers here, because I went from Forward>Dividend Platinum Select, they told me I couldn't originally but that policy changed in February/March.

Also, keep in mind ThankYou Points redeem at .6%, so 5pts * .6% is still effectively 3% at Amazon.

[Anonymous]

Backdoor numbers where (I realize you probably mean this website somewhere, but which #/#s in particular)? I will certainly try it again, although if it works, despite being happy, I'll certainly have to kick myself after having to go through the separate application.

Also I took a look around as for what the thankyou points could be redeemed for. Some say that you can get an Amazon gift card at $25 or $50 with a full 5% redemption rate, and that you can get a prepaid visa card at around 3.5%, and gift cards at certain other stores at a full 5%. My feeling is that 3.5% would be the worst redemption (which is still better), and in some cases I'll get the 5%. On this forum [ http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/596403/ ] people claim you can get Amazon gift cards at a 5% redemption rate:

$50 Amazon.com Gift Certificate (5,000 points)
Item # : 1111059

$25 Amazon.com Gift Certificate (3,000 points)
Item # : 1111058

If you have the card would you be able to look up those item id's and confirm that that is accurate? I'm probably going to get the card either away (or at least try), but I'm curious.

[smc733]

I didn't even think of that, I always only look in terms of cash back.  In that case, that's a pretty good redemption rate, $50 for every $1,000.

Sickied at the top of the "Credit Cards" board, there's a "Backdoor Numbers" threat, check that out, helped me a lot, the BofA is the best.

[MarineVietVet]

---

@android01 wrote:

Speaking ONLY for myself, there is no credit card in this universe worth that level of intrusion into my personal business.  I would never apply for a credit card that requires it, and if asked for a 4506-T from one of my current credit card lenders, I would close my account instantly no matter the size of my CL or how long I've had it.   Customers are volunteers, not hostages.

---

+1

I have better ways to spend my time than to beg for any CC.

From a BK years ago to:
EX - 3/11 pulled by lender- 835, EQ - 2/11-816, TU - 2/11-782

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem".

[Anonymous]

---

@MarineVietVet wrote:

---

@android01 wrote:

Speaking ONLY for myself, there is no credit card in this universe worth that level of intrusion into my personal business.  I would never apply for a credit card that requires it, and if asked for a 4506-T from one of my current credit card lenders, I would close my account instantly no matter the size of my CL or how long I've had it.   Customers are volunteers, not hostages.

---

+1

I have better ways to spend my time than to beg for any CC.

From a BK years ago to:
EX - 3/11 pulled by lender- 835, EQ - 2/11-816, TU - 2/11-782

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem".

---

+2  

My first thought would be to tell them to shove it.

There is an alternative, though. 

Just ignore them.  Do nothing.  You may just get that card anyways.

[clocktick]

If you want the card badly enough, I'd do it.  I missed if you have to pay for the T version though?  I went through this with Nationwide and it got frustrating, however, I faxed them my taxes myself.  I don't think it's "begging" for a the card and taxes are personal to some but not so personal to others.  They're just taxes!