US Bank Shopper Cash+ Rewards Visa Signature- bonus cash back rewards calc reduced by redemptions

[smcj]

Howdy folks.  Long time lurker (literally years), first time poster.

In June of this year I picked up a US Bank Shopper Cash+ Rewards Visa Signature card, with the goal of earning 6% (which is comprised of 1.5% base and 4.5% bonus for two designated retailers) on purchases from Amazon.  In the time since, I have run into two issues, one resolved and one... well, I'm not sure what to make of it, hence this post.

The first issue was that US Bank wasn't actually paying 6% on Amazon purchases for the first couple of cycles.  Instead, they were paying 1.5%, and not the additional 4.5% bonus.  I selected my retailers a full 10 days before the first Amazon purchase so time to kick in was not in question (nor did US Bank question it).  None of this got straightened out until I had not one but two separate calls to US Bank, chewing about an hour of my time.  Now I'll grant that this is a newer product and systems glitch, so not here to rake them over the coals.  Nevertheless, I mention it because it set me up to tracking how the rewards math was working in practice via spreadsheet.

That work in turn took me to the second issue, which is the reason for this post...

... it looks like the math for calculating the bonus 4.5% (not the full 6% or the 1.5% base, **just** the bonus) instead of being this:

(total net purchases on statement with the two (2) designated retailers)

x 4.5%

... is actually this:

((total net purchases on statement with the two (2) designated retailers) - (cash back redemptions for statement credit or real-time rewards))

x 4.5%

Here's where it gets sticky -- I'm not sure that the calc was deducting cash back redemptions until I signed up for real-time rewards.  But now that I have actually used real-time rewards, I can calculate to the penny what is going on.  The total net purchases at the 6% retailers is absolutely being lowered not just by the amount of real-time rewards, but by the total of real-time rewards **and** standard redemptions for statement credit.

FWIW, the US Bank Cash+ Visa Signature card (which I also have) does *not* appear to work this way -- however, I'm not 100% sure about this, because even though I signed up for real-time rewards with this card as well, I have not yet done a real-time redemption with it (and at this point, disinclined to test the waters).

If you have this specific card and are leveraging the 6% cash back from-two-designated-retailers category:

- If you signed up for real-time rewards and have used it at least once, are your rewards being subjected to this "redemption clawback?"

- If you signed up for real-time rewards and have **not** used it at least once, are your rewards being subjected to this "redemption clawback?"

- If you have **not** signed up for real-time rewards at all, are your rewards being subjected to this "redemption clawback?"

For my part, I have turned off real-time redemptions.  Further, since all my redemptions are being treated (for purposes of the 4.5% bonus portion only) the same way as returns to the merchant (meaning as deductions from the total amount of designated-retailer purchases made), it looks to me like the only way out of this clawback is to use a redemption method that doesn't redeem to the credit card balance itself.

Very interested in whether this is a "feature" or a "bug" of the US Bank Shopper Cash+ Rewards card in particular, or somehow driven by the use of the US Bank real-time rewards feature in particular (and a "feature" or "bug" of that), or what.

Thanks for any and all data points!

[yam1rts]

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@smcj wrote:

Howdy folks.  Long time lurker (literally years), first time poster.

In June of this year I picked up a US Bank Shopper Cash+ Rewards Visa Signature card, with the goal of earning 6% (which is comprised of 1.5% base and 4.5% bonus for two designated retailers) on purchases from Amazon.  In the time since, I have run into two issues, one resolved and one... well, I'm not sure what to make of it, hence this post.

The first issue was that US Bank wasn't actually paying 6% on Amazon purchases for the first couple of cycles.  Instead, they were paying 1.5%, and not the additional 4.5% bonus.  I selected my retailers a full 10 days before the first Amazon purchase so time to kick in was not in question (nor did US Bank question it).  None of this got straightened out until I had not one but two separate calls to US Bank, chewing about an hour of my time.  Now I'll grant that this is a newer product and systems glitch, so not here to rake them over the coals.  Nevertheless, I mention it because it set me up to tracking how the rewards math was working in practice via spreadsheet.

That work in turn took me to the second issue, which is the reason for this post...

... it looks like the math for calculating the bonus 4.5% (not the full 6% or the 1.5% base, **just** the bonus) instead of being this:

(total net purchases on statement with the two (2) designated retailers)

x 4.5%

... is actually this:

((total net purchases on statement with the two (2) designated retailers) - (cash back redemptions for statement credit or real-time rewards))

x 4.5%

Here's where it gets sticky -- I'm not sure that the calc was deducting cash back redemptions until I signed up for real-time rewards.  But now that I have actually used real-time rewards, I can calculate to the penny what is going on.  The total net purchases at the 6% retailers is absolutely being lowered not just by the amount of real-time rewards, but by the total of real-time rewards **and** standard redemptions for statement credit.

FWIW, the US Bank Cash+ Visa Signature card (which I also have) does *not* appear to work this way -- however, I'm not 100% sure about this, because even though I signed up for real-time rewards with this card as well, I have not yet done a real-time redemption with it (and at this point, disinclined to test the waters).

If you have this specific card and are leveraging the 6% cash back from-two-designated-retailers category:

- If you signed up for real-time rewards and have used it at least once, are your rewards being subjected to this "redemption clawback?"

- If you signed up for real-time rewards and have **not** used it at least once, are your rewards being subjected to this "redemption clawback?"

- If you have **not** signed up for real-time rewards at all, are your rewards being subjected to this "redemption clawback?"

For my part, I have turned off real-time redemptions.  Further, since all my redemptions are being treated (for purposes of the 4.5% bonus portion only) the same way as returns to the merchant (meaning as deductions from the total amount of designated-retailer purchases made), it looks to me like the only way out of this clawback is to use a redemption method that doesn't redeem to the credit card balance itself.

Very interested in whether this is a "feature" or a "bug" of the US Bank Shopper Cash+ Rewards card in particular, or somehow driven by the use of the US Bank real-time rewards feature in particular (and a "feature" or "bug" of that), or what.

Thanks for any and all data points!

---

Im new to US bank and don't have a CC yet but was considering their Cash+

Do you think it has the same dynamics?

[smcj]

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@yam1rts wrote:

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Im new to US bank and don't have a CC yet but was concidering their Cash+

Do you think it has the same dynamics?

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This is what I can offer about the Cash+ (from the original post):

"FWIW, the US Bank Cash+ Visa Signature card (which I also have) does *not* appear to work this way -- however, I'm not 100% sure about this, because even though I signed up for real-time rewards with this card as well, I have not yet done a real-time redemption with it (and at this point, disinclined to test the waters)."

I use the Cash+ a lot and I think it is a very good card, 5% on utilities or whatever your big 2 categories happen to be is great.  But the above is all the info I have about whether the Shopper Cash+ funkycalc is also done on the Cash+.

[ptatohed]

6% is not 6% when you add in the AF.  I forget the math right now but I think it turns out to be 4.X% at best, after $95 AF.  There are better (free) ways to get 5% at amazon.  

[digitek]

Always interesting to me to read about all the different little subtleties with rewards. This sounds like an oversight of sorts. Reward agreements usually state that accrual is based on total spend minus any credits or returns and since RTR is being seen as a credit for that retailer it doesn't get counted when the statement cuts and the math is done to give points. Might want to let US Bank know about this, but not sure it will get anything done.

[smcj]

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@digitek wrote:

Always interesting to me to read about all the different little subtleties with rewards. This sounds like an oversight of sorts. Reward agreements usually state that accrual is based on total spend minus any credits or returns and since RTR is being seen as a credit for that retailer it doesn't get counted when the statement cuts and the math is done to give points. Might want to let US Bank know about this, but not sure it will get anything done.

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Good observation and yes, the agreement states that accural is based on net purchases, meaning total minus returns/credits from the merchant.  No reference to rewards redemptions being in the accrual calc at all.  I have thought about calling US Bank to let them know, but after already burning over an hour with them on the first issue (not getting 6% on Amazon until I got them to fix it), I'm inclined to just stick with my workaround (if it works anyway).

So that workaround was to open a US Bank checking account.  They are currently running a separate cash bonus/deal attached to opening a checking account and I can meet the criteria for it, so I figured why not -- and for rewards redemption, dump the redemption straight into the checking.

(The only "just get the cash" options for US Bank's rewards programs are (a) deposit (down to the penny) into a US Bank checking or savings, or (b) deposit (in $25 increments) onto a US bank Visa debit card.)

With a cash bonus on opening a checking account (and no fees attached to that checking account in my case) I figured sure, why not.  We'll see in a month if that rewards redemption to checking miraculously scrambles next month's accrual, but I doubt it will happen.  More to come I guess.  But I'm definitely still interested in others' data points on this.  Could be useful.

[smcj]

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@ptatohed wrote:

6% is not 6% when you add in the AF.  I forget the math right now but I think it turns out to be 4.X% at best, after $95 AF.  There are better (free) ways to get 5% at amazon.  

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Absolutely correct.  But there is no AF in the first year.  So in that first year, 6% is, in fact, 6%.

For year 2, I plan to product-convert it to some other US Bank no-AF card (if no other option to ixnay that $95 is available).

[ptatohed]

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@smcj wrote:

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@ptatohed wrote:

6% is not 6% when you add in the AF.  I forget the math right now but I think it turns out to be 4.X% at best, after $95 AF.  There are better (free) ways to get 5% at amazon.  

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Absolutely correct.  But there is no AF in the first year.  So in that first year, 6% is, in fact, 6%.

For year 2, I plan to product-convert it to some other US Bank no-AF card (if no other option to ixnay that $95 is available).

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Understood!